Whenever I have character concepts they always start as non-force sensitive, and at some point I realize the force versions of career specs are more accurate matches to the vision of the character I wanna play.

Omwati tech genius street urchin

Thought scientist or outlaw tech, mixed with something to give him sneakyness... like thief or more slicing

However

Artisan/Shadow is absolutely perfect

Ex Noghri commando turned nature monk

Assassin/trailblazer

Or

Pathfinder/? With super cool animal buddy.

Does this happen to others?

Also if I have no particular favorite force or not, but more a striving to get the right mechanics for the character concept... Is choosing a force career (not the universal specs) as a secondary spec overly hampered by a lack of force die?

I know force characters generally focus on using force over skill building. I'm not trying to min/max to be a super hero, but rather specs often don't have exactly what I'm looking for.

I find PCs get preoccupied by Talents. They should focus primarily on Skills I think. Guys at my table making a bee line for a rank of Deadly Accuracy when their Skill is sitting at 2. 5 ranks in a Skill means you will be very good at what you do. I'd pick the career with the primary spec you're most interested in and not spend so much on Talents.

Hmmm

1 hour ago, 2P51 said:

I find PCs get preoccupied by Talents. They should focus primarily on Skills I think. Guys at my table making a bee line for a rank of Deadly Accuracy when their Skill is sitting at 2. 5 ranks in a Skill means you will be very good at what you do. I'd pick the career with the primary spec you're most interested in and not spend so much on Talents.

In general I think you are pretty spot on, but the difference between an ace and traveling trader are basically 75 xp spend for that brilliant evasion or that showboat or those two ranks for true aim and the exhaust port talent to still trigger two critical hits from that proton torpedo shot against that eclipse-class super star destroyer, etc, meanwhile that pilot is indeed a kickass pilot who will get that transport out trouble and through any terrain the GM throws at him.
Talents are this little extra kick, that feat which separates the specs from each other even when they operate broadly in the same field of flying space ships. Those talents really can be game changers, in some specs more than in others.

Pushing skills before a second spec is a very good advice. Example: Our 5/5 astromech rigger, she can basically hack, repair, mod, reverse engineer and craft anything. 150 xp in skills really does pay off. Impossible becomes just another word for destined to achieve.

When I build a character, I try to focus on what the careers and specializations represent as types and archetypes, rather than what specific abilities I want my characters to have. My general thought path is "my character is an X," rather than "my character should do X, Y, Z." Of course, it does help if certain talents complements the concept, but I don't make that a requirement.

Problem is like wanting a hermit sneaky assassin, to do that you could do hermit/assassin, you could do pathfinder/shadow or survivalist/ assassin etc. All represent the same archetype. The question is what ratio really gives the best mechanical bones for the concept, not best as in max, but what really represents it.

I think I'll have to re-think how important skills are over talents... However getting a few ranks in stalker is probably better at some points in a tree then an upgrade in the stealth skill as it doesn't just upgrade a die it adds one.

If I want a super stealthy kungfu ninja who talks to his pet bird or lives in a cave I got many ways to get there, and mechanically they are all very different.

3 hours ago, TheShard said:

Problem is like wanting a hermit sneaky assassin, to do that you could do hermit/assassin, you could do pathfinder/shadow or survivalist/ assassin etc. All represent the same archetype. The question is what ratio really gives the best mechanical bones for the concept, not best as in max, but what really represents it.

I think I'll have to re-think how important skills are over talents... However getting a few ranks in stalker is probably better at some points in a tree then an upgrade in the stealth skill as it doesn't just upgrade a die it adds one.

How much are you spending in xp though to get that boost die? In your Artisan/Shadow example you're spending 25 xp to access the second tree and buy one boost die, as opposed to 25 xp getting you rank 3 in Stealth in Artisan if you take it as a career freebie. Then another 30 xp to get a second boost die in Shadow, which would be rank 4 in the Artisan tree for Stealth and then some towards rank 5 if you just stayed in Artisan and bought Stealth. 2 boost dice are not better than 3 ranks of skill. That's an in career example, jumping to an out of career second spec would only be more.

That's before even factoring in you don't even need a good Agility with a Rank 5 and you're going to rock the house at Stealth checks. A couple of boost dice on a Rank 1 and a 2 Agility doesn't even compare. You're tech could be more weighted stat wise to benefit Mechanics and you'd be super sneaky and super tinkerer.

22 hours ago, TheShard said:

Does this happen to others?

Also if I have no particular favorite force or not, but more a striving to get the right mechanics for the character concept... Is choosing a force career (not the universal specs) as a secondary spec overly hampered by a lack of force die?

I've had this come up with some character concepts. I played a crafter who took quite a lot of Armorer without a force dice. The reason was simple, none of the other crafter focused specs made sense. Why be a Cyber or Droid Tech if you don't make either? Mechanically the Armorer made sense and it was easy enough to avoid force talents and powers.

Similarly, we had a guy in a recent game playing a detective droid who took investigator. I think he started as a Scientist or something. Regardless, his concept was an investigator and the force class made the most sense so he took it. It was plenty strong and even when given the chance to respec after the release of Skiptracer, which has a lot of the same abilities, he decided to keep Investigator.

That's not to say that such a plan is going to work for everyone. Lots of F&D talent trees are defined by their force talents and many other have high level abilities gated by them. Obviously something like Hermit would be significantly less good if you weren't force sensitive. That being said, I strongly feel that you can build a very viable force user without ever buying a force power. In fact, many force powers are xp pits or traps and are not worth the cost.

On 2/21/2017 at 8:23 PM, TheShard said:

The question is what ratio really gives the best mechanical bones for the concept, not best as in max, but what really represents it.

I don't think there is going to be a universal answer. It would all come down to what the player tends to focus on with that concept in general. In their own way, all 3 are mechanically the best, depending on one's play style.

Some general ideas that i have;

A single characteristic at 4 will always be good at the related skills, training becomes less important and you can focus on skills with smaller dice pools.

If you have a 1 in a characteristic but an in career skill linked to it that is useful for diversification then grab 3 ranks in it. (usually a social, combat or initiative skill depending on your concept)

4-5 Ranks in a skill not linked to your Characteristic 4 will broaden your expertise significantly

Having some talents will help, but you don't need "all the talents". Generally choose a small subset or single line down a tree to a powerful bottom tier talent. Those 5xp talents are cheap!

The Force is expensive, but versatile with a FR of 2+. If you only have a FR of 1 then commit that baby to something, its better bang for your buck.

Dont buy lots of Force Powers, choose only one initially to upgrade a bit. Also only choose one of the ranked upgrades to start (Range, Strength, Magnitude, Duration). Multiple ranks in a single type is much more powerful than 1 rank in each, even if a little less versatile. The problem is you can only guarantee 1 Force Point to use on the base power, and if you get a second point thats only going to activate a single upgrade so you may as well have multiple ranks of that one upgrade.

Stealth, Perception, and Vigilance are three skills that you can excel in without spending a single XP.

Drop some cash on the right armor attachments/modifications and you can rock the house on all three and spend your XP on other stuff.