Rancor Trained Timing

By frotes, in Imperial Assault Rules Questions

Posted at

I had a question about the start and end timing of "trained" so I shot a question at Todd and here is the response

Quote

  • Training is declared at the start of round step, based on initiative correct? ex. My opponent plays Call the Vanguard at the start of the round and has initiative. Even tho my rancor was "Trained" last round, it isn't for this attack because I haven't had a chance to play start of round effects for the new round.
Correct. If your opponent has initiative, Call the Vanguard will sneak in before you can activate Trained for the new round.
  • When does Rancor lose "Trained"? Is it at the start of "end of round"? Or is it during end of round (when the players are playing effects, based on initiative)? Or is it after both players have had a chance to play end of round effects? ex. My rancor is trained and I have initiative. At the end of round, I have no effects to play. My opponent plays Ferocity on his Dewrider and attacks my Rancor. Does the Rancor get 2 black die to defend or 1?
“During this round” effects persist through the entire round, including End of Round effects. Your Rancor would still get the additional die against a Ferocity attack.
Hope that helps!
Todd Michlitsch
Game Developer
Fantasy Flight Games

Posted at

Good to know!

That vanguard card can be crazy good.

Posted at

Interesting, as I would of said you lose the 2nd die at the end of round.

This would be because I would class this ability the same as the Beast Tamer ability to make 'non-sentient' creatures 'sentient'.

It was ruled that the 'sentient' ability is lost when the end of round effects come into play as they can no longer control terminals etc. Does this now mean the designers were wrong about the BT card ability, if the 'Trained' ability is allowed past the end of round??? It would make a difference to the Nexu etc in some lists if they can now contest terminals and mission objectives.

Posted at

What do you mean? Beast Tamer is during this activation .

The round changes when the initiative token is passed at the end of the status phase, so Trained persists until that.

Posted at

it was ruled that if you used BT to make the Nexu 'sentient' so it could interact with a mission objective for example (not opening a door), then it dropped the objective as it was no longer 'sentient' This was over a year ago. Has this now changed, as the activation phase for deployment cards ends when they are readied in the Status Phase before end of round effects are carried out.

Just reread the card on the Rancor and it says the trained ability lasts during this Round.

So when part 3 of the Status Phase kicks in which is 'End of Round Effects' which includes mission rules and players resolving command cards then trained has ended due to the name of part 3. End of Round Effects, this means that the 'Round' has finished otherwise you can not play any cards or mission objectives as the round is still being played.

Edited by TryerImp
Posted at

The activation ends after the figure ends activation.

If a mission rule requires an interact to retrieve a token, Non-Sentient prevents that (disallows interact), and Beast Tamer allows it (allows interact during this activation). Carrying a token does not require you to not be Non-Sentient (and non-sentient isn't even a trait). The mission or Beast Tamer should be errata'ed if that is not the intent. Can you point me to the ruling?

Trained, however, is very clear from the wording - during this round - meaning until the next round starts. It has nothing to do with Beast Tamer. Their wordings are completely different. And Trained is specifically not "until the end of round".

Edited by a1bert
Posted at

Why would you drop the objective?

Non-Sentient prevents interaction, but you are no longer interacting if already carrying the objective?

Interact is an action, not an ongoing status that can be lost by becoming non-sentient again...

Nexu_595_ffflogog_whatermark_cc.jpg Beast%20Tamer_595_ffflogog_whatermark_cc

Edited by Majushi
Posted at

I can't find it now but I believe there was a ruling that if you lose the ability to interact you can't continue carrying an objective/token/crate etc...

Can't for the life of me find the a link though. I think it had to do with the fact that Retrieve is slightly different to Interact. Retrieve is a type of Interact.

Edited by Inquisitorsz
Posted at

With Beast Tamer the figure does not lose the ability to interact at the end of its activation, it loses the inability to interact (Non-Sentient) for the duration of their activation.

Retrieve contains an interact, and thus a figure with the Non-Sentient ability cannot retrieve, because they cannot interact.

Edit: Does anyone remember the name of the mission? It might help in searching for a possible ruling.

Edited by a1bert
Posted at

I think it was discussed when Beast Tamer came out.... so whatever the skirmish maps were at the time..... I think Cantina, Kuat and Training Ground maybe?

I've searched all around for "sentient" "retrieve" and "beast tamer" and couldn't find what I was looking for.

Might just be worth shooting FFG and email to confirm.

Posted at

The first google hit found the discussion. :D

And the consensus seems to be the same as in this one.

Edited by a1bert
Posted at

Yeah I saw that one but it's hardly confirmation. It's just us speculating again. I swear there was an FFG response to that question but maybe I'm just remembering wrong

Posted at

It is not speculation really, it's rules as written. A carried token cannot be voluntarily dropped unless there is a mission rule allowing (or forcing) it.

(I have also thought that there are mini-activations during end of round when actions are involved, but all of this time it may have been just a misunderstood ruling about about how in some missions villains activate after each hero with just one action "instead of activating normally". Each action is contained within a separate activation.)

Edited by a1bert