13 minutes ago, Ken at Sunrise said:

That is a good point and may happen. But to go too far turns off a generation with the funds to over indulge financially in this game. But still possible.

At some point, that generation should stop feeling like they own Star Wars.

2 minutes ago, Sithborg said:

At some point, that generation should stop feeling like they own Star Wars.

Thank You. +1

Just now, Sithborg said:

At some point, that generation should stop feeling like they own Star Wars.

8 minutes ago, Sithborg said:

At some point, that generation should stop feeling like they own Star Wars.

But... we kind of do. Literally. Take a wild guess at the median age range of Disney shareholders

I was talking about the possibility of alienating one demographic that spends a fair amount of money over another. Just to be clear I wasn't talking about ownership or entitlement.

2 minutes ago, Ken at Sunrise said:

I was talking about the possibility of alienating one demographic that spends a fair amount of money over another. Just to be clear I wasn't talking about ownership or entitlement.

ah but do you spend more money on you or your kiddos who just LOVE Rey?

32 minutes ago, Luke C said:

At what point does FFG and Disney say, "Our target market is post episode VII sales." meaning they want rey, finn, rebels, rogue one and all other pure Disney Star Wars markets to sell. Just my 2 cents that perhaps they care a bit less about the OT and care more about all of the new stuff.

That's fine, but their cash cow that they have now is built off the back of the original trilogy. FFG would do well not to alienate those of us "old school" folks.

25 minutes ago, Makaze said:

especially Rogue One (give me my K2-S0 card, best character in that movie).

I disagree. Chirrut Imwe is by far the best!

13 minutes ago, Ken at Sunrise said:

I was talking about the possibility of alienating one demographic that spends a fair amount of money over another. Just to be clear I wasn't talking about ownership or entitlement.

Except that when you talk about alienating one segment, and how they really should be catered to, you are talking as if they are the only demographic that matters. I mean, by this reasoning, the game should've had a sharp decline after Wave 3. Guess what, it didn't.

News flash, prequel ships wouldn't be the end of the game.

6 minutes ago, Sithborg said:

News flash, prequel ships wouldn't be the end of the game.

Less sure of that. There's a difference between some random ship you've never heard of showing up, meh kind of a neutral reaction to that. And the visceral almost physical revulsion some people feel when they think of Jar Jar Binks...

2 minutes ago, Makaze said:

Less sure of that. There's a difference between some random ship you've never heard of showing up, meh kind of a neutral reaction to that. And the visceral almost physical revulsion some people feel when they think of Jar Jar Binks...

again this notably happens with older folks who felt like the prequels ruined their childhood memories. MANY people don't hang the entirety of their star wars experience on jar jar binks being bad....

They probably hang it on the HORRIBLE dialogue between padme and anakin.

I digress though, there are plenty of people who like the prequels just fine. It's just cool to hate the prequels if you are a "star wars fan"

9 minutes ago, Makaze said:

Less sure of that. There's a difference between some random ship you've never heard of showing up, meh kind of a neutral reaction to that. And the visceral almost physical revulsion some people feel when they think of Jar Jar Binks...

You're assuming that people still have the same distaste now for a prequel trilogy that finished 12 years ago. It may shock you, but there are legitimately many people that don't hate the prequels. And they're Star Wars fans too.

You're also assuming that everyone would have a "bad" reaction to seeing prequel ships. But many, even here on the X-Wing forums, have stated the prequels had some very cool ship designs that would be fun to play with. Seeing the ships doesn't automatically mean people will think "Ew prequels" or "Ew, Jar Jar Binks" (who I find a straw-man argument for hating the entire prequel trilogy these days and would most likely not even show up in a prequel version of X-Wing). They're just as likely, if not more-so, think "hey, there's that cool-looking ship from Episode III. I'd want to play with that".

15 hours ago, Sithborg said:

The thing with a 2.0, is that they have been all too willing to invalidate AGOT player's collections, so why do you think they wouldn't invalidate ours.

Also, creating a conversion isn't exactly the best way to go. How long do you think it would take for them to develop and test 10 whole waves, to be released at once? Which at the same time means, no new stuff is being released. Which, let me tell you, companies are not fans of putting their largest revenue streams on hold.

And really, all you are doing is replacing the current issues with different issues. Because, I am pretty **** sure releasing 10 new waves of stuff at once is not going to be even less tested than what we are currently getting. AGOT was able to get away with their second edition because they are not completely redoing their old card base. What everyone advocates here, is quite frankly, a flight of fancy. It is not practical, nor good for the game, to completely redo all the existing ships in a way that you can just release a simple conversion pack.

And let me tell you, FFG will get you to rebuy the ships anyway. See Descent and the Heroes and Monster Packs.

Well, that is a card game. Kind of hard to reboot that withour invalidating the material. X-Wing on the other hand can be redone just fine without killing the models and bases. You would lose the upgrades, but that isn't too big a deal. An upgrade kit would then have new pilot cards and maybe a few upgrades so new players also want the kit even though they don't have ships to upgrade.

50 minutes ago, Luke C said:

ah but do you spend more money on you or your kiddos who just LOVE Rey?

Well I actually spend more money on myself right now.

38 minutes ago, Sithborg said:

Except that when you talk about alienating one segment, and how they really should be catered to, you are talking as if they are the only demographic that matters. I mean, by this reasoning, the game should've had a sharp decline after Wave 3. Guess what, it didn't.

News flash, prequel ships wouldn't be the end of the game.

I'm not sure who's post your referring to. I never said anything about catering to anyone, or anything that suggested stopping at Wave 3. I was talking about the possibly of going too far and focusing on one demographic and pushing out a different and profitable demographic. Of course Disney may prefer to focus and push more current content, but there are more ways to market than the all or nothing approach you're Wave 3 comment implies. Sorry if you were confused or I wasn't clear enough.

Does this help?

33 minutes ago, Sithborg said:

Except that when you talk about alienating one segment, and how they really should be catered to, you are talking as if they are the only demographic that matters. I mean, by this reasoning, the game should've had a sharp decline after Wave 3. Guess what, it didn't.

News flash, prequel ships wouldn't be the end of the game.

They sure haven't been! I love my Z95s and Arc 170s! Not to mention the Firespray 31, and Gozanti cruiser.

I'd play with prequel ships. Those little jedi cutters that Obi-wan and Anakin were flying in the beginning of Ep. III. were pretty cool.

23 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

So then what's the big deal? You'll probably spend money on this game anyway even if they don't do a revision/2.0/2nd Ed. Wouldn't it be nice to spend those dollars on a better version of the game?

It's hard to imagine dropping several hundred dollars on upgrading my fleet. Yes, I intend to continue buying ships, but an upgrade pack is like paying for a patch on a video game. Yes I pay for DLC and expansions... but when I have to start paying for patches I might be done with video games too. I'm not saying I 100% won't buy an X-wing 2.0 but I am definitively not looking forward to it.

12 minutes ago, Derpzilla88 said:

You're assuming that people still have the same distaste now for a prequel trilogy that finished 12 years ago. It may shock you, but there are legitimately many people that don't hate the prequels. And they're Star Wars fans too.

You're also assuming that everyone would have a "bad" reaction to seeing prequel ships. But many, even here on the X-Wing forums, have stated the prequels had some very cool ship designs that would be fun to play with. Seeing the ships doesn't automatically mean people will think "Ew prequels" or "Ew, Jar Jar Binks" (who I find a straw-man argument for hating the entire prequel trilogy these days and would most likely not even show up in a prequel version of X-Wing). They're just as likely, if not more-so, think "hey, there's that cool-looking ship from Episode III. I'd want to play with that".

I am to some degree joking of course. There are definitely a handful of ships from the prequels and I wouldn't really have any objection to them being included. Just because something was in those movies doesn't automatically make it bad. I think the Aethersprite and Eta-2 both look cool and who doesn't want a Yoda card? But the fear is that if they start down that path then the floodgates open up, and a lot of stuff in those movies is crap. Absolutely do not want a baby Anakin piloted Naboo fighter flying next to a Jar Jar crewed Silver Surfer reject shuttle.

10 minutes ago, Makaze said:

I am to some degree joking of course. There are definitely a handful of ships from the prequels and I wouldn't really have any objection to them being included. Just because something was in those movies doesn't automatically make it bad. I think the Aethersprite and Eta-2 both look cool and who doesn't want a Yoda card? But the fear is that if they start down that path then the floodgates open up, and a lot of stuff in those movies is crap. Absolutely do not want a baby Anakin piloted Naboo fighter flying next to a Jar Jar crewed Silver Surfer reject shuttle.

Really?? What if baby Ani could hand Soontir his butt?? Because GAMEPLAY >>>>>> FLUFF!!!!!!!!!

Just now, Jetfire said:

It's hard to imagine dropping several hundred dollars on upgrading my fleet. Yes, I intend to continue buying ships, but an upgrade pack is like paying for a patch on a video game. Yes I pay for DLC and expansions... but when I have to start paying for patches I might be done with video games too. I'm not saying I 100% won't buy an X-wing 2.0 but I am definitively not looking forward to it.

I've been thinking on this too. But if it was a good enough I wouldn't mind, but yes hundreds could hurt. I guess it would depend on how it compares to the cost of my fleet now. I'd wouldn't thing a 10% price unreasonable. But how much more than 10% would we accept without a revolt. Of course regardless on what this theoretical expansion might be, for some it will be too much.

21 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Really?? What if baby Ani could hand Soontir his butt?? Because GAMEPLAY >>>>>> FLUFF!!!!!!!!!

There's a line. And that line is Jar Jar.

Kidding aside I absolutely don't want the bad stuff from the prequels in there, but it's also highly unlikely I would quit the game over them. I just wouldn't play with them, and assuming the hypothetical that they're super power creeped I'd just play tier 1.5 lists, go 3-3 or 4-2, come to the forums to complain about it, and still have a good time

44 minutes ago, Ken at Sunrise said:

I've been thinking on this too. But if it was a good enough I wouldn't mind, but yes hundreds could hurt. I guess it would depend on how it compares to the cost of my fleet now. I'd wouldn't thing a 10% price unreasonable. But how much more than 10% would we accept without a revolt. Of course regardless on what this theoretical expansion might be, for some it will be too much.

Ideally it would take the form of the Scyk fix, where the card would remain valid but with new text. Allowing you to use existing cards for tournaments.

You could allow printed overlays.

Realistically if the patch is required cardstock I would imagine 10% is likely the value, but 10% of a fixed collection size somewhere between one of each ship and say 4 of each small and 1 of each large. If we get into punch 20-25% seems more likely.

I will of course evaluate it when the time comes on it's merits and then probably buy it no matter what it costs and eat ramen for a month.

On Tuesday, February 21, 2017 at 8:07 PM, VaeVictis said:

Of course the lists change as the new cards and ships change. This is meaningless and provides no valuable insight into the state of the game.

What is more telling is what the distribution is of similar lists at each tournament. Lists changing is normal for any game like this. However, if 95% of the lists at any given tournament fall into a handful of basic structures (Palpmobile, Manaroo, Quad TLTs, etc depending on what year it is) then you're demonstrating a pattern that the game tends to release new game-breaking combinations, rather than creating a system where thoughtful list construction is the norm.

There were 13 different ships in the Top 16 of last year's Worlds. The largest variety was Imperial, which fielded 5 different ones. Scum fielded 4. Rebels fielded 4. The only reason diversity was that large on Rebels is that only 2 Rebel players even made the Top 16 and their lists were different, lol. There are 34 total ships in X-Wing. Meaning that 21 of them were completely meaningless to the bracketed single-elimination phase of the game. That's not really a good thing. Outside of trick ponies, there are quite a few ships in X-Wing that never get used because they are either overcosted, or completely outclassed by similar releases.

A 2.0 X-Wing doesn't need to completely obliterate the existing collections. But there definitely needs to be a complete re-examination of the earlier wave ships, at the very least. The game has added 3 different kinds of upgrades, and two entirely new maneuvers to the game, unnecessarily hamstringing earlier ships that don't get them, likely for no better reason than "This didn't exist when that ship was released".

These problems can be fixed by "Aces" packs where they can release "fixes" to the lesser ships as seen in Imp Veterans and Most Wanted. In fact I would like to see a wave or two dedicated to fixing overcosted/underused ships such as the T-65.

3 hours ago, Luke C said:

At what point does FFG and Disney say, "Our target market is post episode VII sales." meaning they want rey, finn, rebels, rogue one and all other pure Disney Star Wars markets to sell. Just my 2 cents that perhaps they care a bit less about the OT and care more about all of the new stuff.

They care about what sells best.

2 hours ago, Derpzilla88 said:

You're assuming that people still have the same distaste now for a prequel trilogy that finished 12 years ago. It may shock you, but there are legitimately many people that don't hate the prequels.

Yes

2 hours ago, Derpzilla88 said:

And they're Star Wars fans too.

No

I'm ready for X-Wing Forums 2.0. I practically never come here anymore as the WHITE makes my eyes bleed after a couple minutes.