And, BTW, I fully realize that a 2.0 is a massive undertaking. I don't have a clear idea how it can be accomplished. (All I really know are the steps that would kill the game completely, like invalidating current models.) Furthermore, the only other miniatures game I ever played -- which I also loved -- was Dungeons and Dragons Miniatures, which was itself killed by its own 2.0. So I'm really not advocating for 2.0 lightly, believe me.

(To be fair, though, DDM 2.0 was forced on the players to make DDM conform to the upcoming D&D4E. DDM 2.0 was not needed from a gameplay or organized play perspective. So it's not really an equivalent situation beyond the superficial similarities.)

4 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

What is the cost of not doing that?

Might I say nothing?

Maybe X-Wing 2.0 may go from good to great but if it alienates its current customers it will really need to make up for them in new sales. Perhaps those sales will make up for the loss of the old guard but it may also lead to more overall price increases to try to make up profits from any lost business.

1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:

Why does everyone jump to the wood chipper fallacy?

Wood chipper fallacy 2.0.

It would be financial suicide for FFG to make us all to start over.

Oh, I feel terrible. Mostly, though, because you are over-interpreting the hell out of my analogy. My only point, which really wasn't meant to be an analysis of aviation in the early 20th century vis-à-vis the game of X-Wing, was just that if something is GOOD, one can either rest on one's laurels, or try to make it GREAT (or at least better).

#MAGA

59 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

What is the cost of not doing that?

In reality, the game will probably continue to do well for the next 3 or 4 years. Players will come and go, and then the game will die. Hardcore players will keep playing, but the game will be over.

We we will all move on and do something else. Just like many other major games that have come and gone.

I personally think they'll continue to make 1.0 until it dies and then make a new game similar enough to capture the same market but different enough that model transfer wouldn't work. Making the ships smaller would probably do it.

10 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

I think an x-wing 2.0 could work. With the benefit of hindsight, and development in other games, implementing new dice type, and some mechanic changes, the game could be upgraded. With a minimum expenditure and replacement required.

As is, the models are (mostly) fine, adding a new attack die, we'll call an orange die, that has a several sides with two hits, and maybe only one side with a blank. Make this die the "cannon and ordnance" die and you have just altered the game.

Now this is not necessarily perfect as proposed, but if this heavy attack die is not just used for upgrade weapons, but can replace two red dice with an orange.

This is actually a both brilliant (and obvious now i think about it) idea.. it works well in IA and in Armada and it would move the game away from the issue of the linear progression between dice and the clunky scaling of these dice in the current version where two base attack dice is too little, tree enough and 4 a bit too much in many cases. Also the same could be done with the defence dice having a full evade (avoiding ALL damage) on the small agile ships such as A-wings and Ties..

11 hours ago, StevenO said:

A new die type? That really sounds like something that could alienate people especially if it became a requirements. Maybe we could see them as a supplement to go with some new model but throwing new dice is going to be trouble especially when anything that used the new dice should need to include the new dice.

Now if a new die were introduced I'd almost like to see a "half die" which I guess I'd make blue and probably put two blanks, focus, evade, and hit symbols on. It could be used in offense or defense and has a 1/4 chance of a "good" result used either way with another 1/4 chance of getting that Focus result.

You mean alienate them like a new damage deck?

If you read my idea about a new die type, the orange attack die, a simple way to do it is make it a trade off. Two red = 1 orange.

If the orange die was 8 sided and had this breakdown, it might be worth it:

blank

crit

crit

two hits

two hits

hit

hit

hit

The trade off is that you are only rolling one die, so rerolls could be bad. Now, I didn't put a focus on there, but you could easily put one in place of, say a crit.

This die has more reliability to inflict damage than the red die.

Of course, a new die type could have new symbols. It could be a different polyhedral, 6 sided, 10 sided, with differrent value breakdown.

you release these new dice, and some updated cards that use them, say some cannons and torps, cards, a booklet with any other rule changes, and if any new major cradboard for existing models is required, do that. Call it, rather than x-wing 2.0 an x-wing advanced upgrade kit.

It could also include other ways to get these new dice on existing ships rather than a strait two for one. Perhaps a modification upgrade - Fine Tuned Weaponry, 1 pt, you may change one of your red attack dice to orange.

Now there are no ship models in the above pack, and if you wanted, you could make an x-wing advanced kit for each faction that included a model, perhaps a new sculpt. Imagine if the rebel pack came with a new sculpt y-wing, with an actual turret on top, or had a bubble turret similar to one clone wars variant. We have already gotten some resculpts (poe's x-wing, the Force Awakens Millennium Falcon). Doing a faction pack also lets you tailor any card or cardboard upgrades as well. Only play imperial? Just get that advanced upgrade kit.

Will the advanced game upgrades be required for tournaments? Absolutely. In the same way that ANY release becomes a requirement, as rules get updated, cards get all faq'd up, and new ships take over the meta.

But, as I propose it, the above doesn't replace or invalidate ANY previous release. Marketing wise, it avoids any negative connotation of a second edition, or 2.0 moniker. Including resculpts all but ensure that some players will buy more than one, and faction specific packs, if priced accordingly, will create a percieved value to those who dont play scum, or rebels and don't need to pay for sonething they won't use.

Using the "advanced" rules will also appeal to those that want to feel superior to the "filthy casuals" but without saying it.

I'm surprised that some think if Fantasy Flight (FFG) came out with X-Wing 2.0 it would alienate everyone. I have a feeling that FFG has play testers and marketing that would and perhaps will workout the best way to come out with a new version if it suits them. The idea that we would have to throw everything away would be the ruin of the game, as everyone points out, but some seem to think that FFG doesn't know that. Of course they do.

If 2.0 comes out, rest assured that it will be a compromise to fix the old and attract us to the new. Will it be perfect or without it's own set of problems? Maybe not but it may make what was a simple easy game to play simple, easy and fun again.

The simple truth is, regardless of how much we deny whether or not this is needed, the number of email complaining about imbalance and over-whelming complexity in upgrade combinations is growing. And has been for over a year. Threads like this are not just trolling as some say, but are honest opinions and questions about a game we all like and really want to play.

13 hours ago, FlyingAnchors said:

#MAGA

Relevance?

13 hours ago, Luke C said:

In reality, the game will probably continue to do well for the next 3 or 4 years. Players will come and go, and then the game will die. Hardcore players will keep playing, but the game will be over.

We we will all move on and do something else. Just like many other major games that have come and gone.

If you really like this game, I would think you would have higher aspirations for it.

D&D has had 5 editions over 30 years.

M:TG has remained popular for over 20 years.

With the Mouse in charge, there is no reason to think that the SW franchise is going to wane any time soon.

So why say, no 2.0, let's just let the game die of natural causes in a few years?

5 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

You mean alienate them like a new damage deck?

If you read my idea about a new die type, the orange attack die, a simple way to do it is make it a trade off. Two red = 1 orange.

If the orange die was 8 sided and had this breakdown, it might be worth it:

Using the "advanced" rules will also appeal to those that want to feel superior to the "filthy casuals" but without saying it.

I never understood the beef about the new damage deck. It was the designers advocating for an improvement in play. Fans of the game couldn't manage to pony up $30 to get the new core set? No wonder 2.0 kills everyone.

I have multiple times advocated for the idea of new die types. I like the concept.

And there you have it. Not X-Wing 2.0, but X-Wing Advanced. Whatever non-inflammatory term you needs to use to make changes.

5 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Fans of the game couldn't manage to pony up $30 to get the new core set? No wonder 2.0 kills everyone.

Think it was more $30 for 33 cards, which is almost a dollar a card, that was the issue. Many people didn't see any value in the other components of the core set. They didn't want both a T-70 and an FO and already had all the dice and templates they needed. Mind you I bought one the day it came out, but I get the frustration if the deck would have been literally the only thing you felt like you needed out of that box

4 minutes ago, Makaze said:

Think it was more $30 for 33 cards, which is almost a dollar a card, that was the issue. Many people didn't see any value in the other components of the core set. They didn't want both a T-70 and an FO and already had all the dice and templates they needed. Mind you I bought one the day it came out, but I get the frustration if the deck would have been literally the only thing you felt like you needed out of that box

And yet, that would be the idea of 2.0--all the components for the best version of the game are retrofitted into all the old releases.

3 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

And yet, that would be the idea of 2.0--all the components for the best version of the game are retrofitted into all the old releases.

Which I, and a lot of other people, are all for. But some others just view it as an extra $X they have to shell out to keep playing with things they already purchased. I don't agree with that sentiment, but I get it. Plus that's also the ideal most consumer friendly scenario, which many don't see as likely to pass thanks to years of experience with corporate America.

That new damage deck could actually be an example of why an X-Wing 2.0 would be so easy to accept.

I may believe the new DD should be used but I can easily see why a grace period would have been needed. I also see how it is only ONE component of the game and is functionally equivalent to the DD we already had even if the effects were a little different. Now if FFG were to make the new DD available separately it may have been cheaper than buying the new core (which can occasionally be found for crazy low prices anyway if you're looking) it requirement may have been easier for some but it would still just be spending money on cards. At least with the DD you'd know that you'd need what you're paying for. The hypothetical 2.0 updates would be a lot more involved and require a much larger outlay from current customers.

Although they may not have done so I believe FFG should have the new DD be the ONLY DD they release. It should be easy enough to put it into both core sets.

13 minutes ago, StevenO said:

That new damage deck could actually be an example of why an X-Wing 2.0 would be so easy to accept.

I may believe the new DD should be used but I can easily see why a grace period would have been needed. I also see how it is only ONE component of the game and is functionally equivalent to the DD we already had even if the effects were a little different. Now if FFG were to make the new DD available separately it may have been cheaper than buying the new core (which can occasionally be found for crazy low prices anyway if you're looking) it requirement may have been easier for some but it would still just be spending money on cards. At least with the DD you'd know that you'd need what you're paying for. The hypothetical 2.0 updates would be a lot more involved and require a much larger outlay from current customers.

Although they may not have done so I believe FFG should have the new DD be the ONLY DD they release. It should be easy enough to put it into both core sets.

The hardest part about literally releasing a 2.0 edition is that for every player to get the 2.0 upgrade it would take approximately a year, if FFG's previous releases have anything to say about it. They would print way less than they think they need, sell out immediately and go back into another reprint.

12 minutes ago, Luke C said:

The hardest part about literally releasing a 2.0 edition is that for every player to get the 2.0 upgrade it would take approximately a year, if FFG's previous releases have anything to say about it. They would print way less than they think they need, sell out immediately and go back into another reprint.

After reading most of this thread, somehow I don't think availability will the hardest part.

14 minutes ago, Luke C said:

The hardest part about literally releasing a 2.0 edition is that for every player to get the 2.0 upgrade it would take approximately a year, if FFG's previous releases have anything to say about it. They would print way less than they think they need, sell out immediately and go back into another reprint.

Keep in mind that the factory resources needed to print cardboard are much easier to come by than the resources needed to produce detailed and painted miniatures.

It's even vaguely feasible to set up some kind of print-on-demand solution, though that's so far ahead of the curve I doubt FFG would give it consideration.

Wow apparently its been a while since we have had an "on the boat joke"

11 minutes ago, Luke C said:

Wow apparently its been a while since we have had an "on the boat joke"

I'm not sure it's a joke when it's actually true ...

1 minute ago, Jeff Wilder said:

I'm not sure it's a joke when it's actually true ...

Exactly. 2.0 cant work because of on the boat truths.

Just now, Luke C said:

Exactly. 2.0 cant work because of on the boat truths.

Which is why I pointed out that "on the boat" isn't the same concern for cardboard that it is for miniatures.

1 minute ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Which is why I pointed out that "on the boat" isn't the same concern for cardboard that it is for miniatures.

where there is a possible way, ffg will find a way to mess up distribution.

source: destiny.

On ‎2‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 8:55 PM, ozmodon said:

I haven't seen any need to clean it up. Good luck with your Trolling!

And pretty good luck it was. 6 pages after he dropped this turd of a thread, Shadow345 has had nothing else to say about it.

It's all good. Some people just get upset from time to time and need to vent. I've even broken down and said some questionable things before. The game is great with very few bumps in the road. The FFG team has worked hard to give us something special

Trolling is fine as long as it doesn't become the norm. He probably should of asked something more along the lines of, " How long do you think it will be before we get a second edition?"

As a fairly new player, I'm not sure I'd be ready for the introduction of 2.0. I guess in a way it would be easier for a new player to digest over someone who's been on board since day one, but still wouldn't be too excited about the prospect. However, and this is just my two cents on all the 2.0 talk. I feel increasingly like I'm playing a game of upgrades/combos and not so much the dogfighting, space flying, maneuvering aspect that drew me to this game. If FFG were looking for a way to retool I'd suggest ditching all the current cards (pilots, upgrades, the whole lot), keep the ships, and re-issue pilot cards with upgrades already included. If a pilot or particular combo of pilots and ships became to OP at some future point, then they simply re-issue a new pilot for said ship(s). This would control the dreaded power creep and keep from having to do 2.5 or 3.0. I get the marketing aspect, issue cool upgrades on certain ships forcing people to buy ships they might not otherwise purchase, but reintroducing pilots with new upgrades could be equally as lucrative.