Not in the middle of a shield fight they don't. I'm done with this. There are ways to include all the feature in the game on a shield for those with the narrative imagination.

4 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

There are ways to include all the feature in the game on a shield for those with the narrative imagination.

There are always players (and GMs) able to justify ridiculous things. They're called "power gamers" and "munchkins". There's nothing wrong with saying "no" to unreasonable requests. Best case, with a generous GM, is that the device is so complicated with extra functions that it's very prone to malfunction.

I'm sure that fellow in the other thread on crafting thought that he was doing a fine job of "narratively imagining" how a dozen pit droids could all, simultaneously, help him craft an item smaller than silhouette 2.

1 hour ago, Darth Poopdeck said:

The books usually list shields under the "Weapons" listing in the books. So, would you use armor or weapon crafting rules to make a shield?

Yes.

But what is unreasonable in a galaxy with vibro-knives and glowsticks?

I mean, I have yet to see a player asking for building some edust assassin drones… ;-)

@2P51 Shields are weapons, rather protective, easy to handle, super-effective, but they are weapons, not armor. The devs got this one right. Now two weapon fighting, oh boy did they got this wrong with just one dice extra *grin*

1 minute ago, SEApocalypse said:

But what is unreasonable in a galaxy with vibro-knives and glowsticks?

I mean, I have yet to see a player asking for building some edust assassin drones… ;-)

1. Expecting a movie by J.J. Abrams with an original plot.

2. Just wait long enough.

36 minutes ago, ShadoWarrior said:

Don't assume that I'm assuming anything. Bending a barrel is a lot harder than it might seem. Any decent military weapon is designed to take some abuse from soldiers, and barrels are made of very tough steel (or whatever metals are appropriate in Star Wars, like duranium, which probably cannot be bent by someone lacking seriously enhanced strength). If weapons were so fragile that barrels could be easily bent they'd be near useless in the field.

Most of the Verpine weapons are extremely fragile.

Why would a directed energy weapon need a tough barrel at all? It isnt containing an explosion like real life's slugthrowers.

Just now, Darth Poopdeck said:

Most of the Verpine weapons are extremely fragile.

But they have that included as special rule already.

1 minute ago, SEApocalypse said:

But they have that included as special rule already.

Touche

Just now, korjik said:

Why would a directed energy weapon need a tough barrel at all? It isnt containing an explosion like real life's slugthrowers.

Containing insane amount of energy, which is mostly in form of heat and accelerating it via a magnet rail … needs basically unobtainium to contain in the barrel. Star Wars weapon are crazy silly based on the silly tech explanations. The plasma based blaster more so than the tibanna gas ones.

4 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

But what is unreasonable in a galaxy with vibro-knives and glowsticks?

I mean, I have yet to see a player asking for building some edust assassin drones… ;-)

@2P51 Shields are weapons, rather protective, easy to handle, super-effective, but they are weapons, not armor. The devs got this one right. Now two weapon fighting, oh boy did they got this wrong with just one dice extra *grin*

I'm aware, which is why I already said they were.

1 minute ago, korjik said:

Why would a directed energy weapon need a tough barrel at all? It isnt containing an explosion like real life's slugthrowers.

It is holding powerful magnets that channel and accelerate a dense, extremely hot plasma (aka a "blaster" bolt).

@2P51 Mean pirate in that case to answer with yes to A or B question. Not that I would mind, I am used to that from my wife. ;-)

For a shield:

Sunder: Laser bars on it, that will cut a weapon when it hits it.

Ensnare: The shield's outside face has a gooey substance, or releases a net on impact.

1 hour ago, Darth Poopdeck said:

For a shield:

Sunder: Laser bars on it, that will cut a weapon when it hits it.

Ensnare: The shield's outside face has a gooey substance, or releases a net on impact.

You don't even need a description for Sunder honestly, a pair of Triumphs and you can destroy stuff in combat checks with any weapon. A weapon with sunder is just a little better at it.

All of this comparing to the real world is pointless. We are talking about a galaxy of near magically strong metals, monomolecular edges, and Vader knows what other sci-fi tech. Regardless of whether or not it makes sense to break an AK-47 with modern shield technology matters little for Star Wars or this game. You know how we know Sunder works with a shield, because the developers have written rules and stated in an Order 66 podcast that they do. There isn't even any ambiguity on the point. In the episode where the lead developer talks about Special Modifications, he specifically talks about shields having weapons treats.

Don't get me wrong, I think the shield crafting rules are absolutely stupid and undercosted. There is no reason someone should be able to spend so little for 2-3 defense or deflect. That being said, If your player is choosing to use their advantages to add sunder to their shield instead of driving its defense and deflect through the roof, as I GM I'd be thrilled. I'm all for house ruling crafted shields to make them take longer or be more expensive, but don't get rid of something just because you lack the creativity to imagine how it would work. Particularly when Sunder is such a good trait for players to have on their weapons. As a GM I love it when play players break all of their loot before they even get it.

@SladeWestonIs this really an issue in this game? You can blow up a guard shoto to what? deflection 4 and defensive 3? Not or bad both. And now don't tell me that even a small energy shield like the one Sabine Wren uses recently is not a better defensive weapon that a silly guard shoto. ;-)

And remember the huge downside of using a shield: No two handed weapons for you, that means most effective autofire weapons are out of the player's hand, most single hit heavy hitters as well, leaving the player basically with vibro-rapiers, lightsabers, pistols for the most part. And iirc the devs ruled out that you can dual-wield with carabins, so they are out too, despite being one-handed usable as the shield counts as weapon. It is nice to have an incentive to actually use pistoles outside of weapon restrictions.

41 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

@SladeWestonIs this really an issue in this game? You can blow up a guard shoto to what? deflection 4 and defensive 3? Not or bad both. And now don't tell me that even a small energy shield like the one Sabine Wren uses recently is not a better defensive weapon that a silly guard shoto. ;-)

And remember the huge downside of using a shield: No two handed weapons for you, that means most effective autofire weapons are out of the player's hand, most single hit heavy hitters as well, leaving the player basically with vibro-rapiers, lightsabers, pistols for the most part. And iirc the devs ruled out that you can dual-wield with carabins, so they are out too, despite being one-handed usable as the shield counts as weapon. It is nice to have an incentive to actually use pistoles outside of weapon restrictions.

The main issue is that it costs 10 credits to make a shield. Which means a min/maxy player will first get the difficulty down to (-) and then start pumping out 3 defense/deflect shields for everyone in the group. The issue is that the cost and difficulty is so low that this can be done with a really humble mechanics check pool and for relatively little money. Is it game breaking to have every PC without a two handed weapon with a shield granting 3 setback dice, No, but it's **** annoying and imo immersion breaking. I mean to get that kind of defense from armor they'd be investing thousands or credits. Vibro-rapiers are arguably the best Melee weapon, Lightsabers are awesome and many players use pistols over heavier weapons. Is there a tradeoff? Sure, but for those who want the defense the payoff is huge for very little investment.

Just to be clear, my issue isn't with a 200xp character having a shield. My issue is that a mechanic with a modest YYGGBB could start crafting 3 def shields for everyone almost immediately after character creation. To me, an entire group walking around with shield just doesn't feel very Star Wars-y, but I can hardly fault the logic of doing it. And unlike some of the crafting recipes, 8 hrs and 10 credits isn't even prohibitive. I mean it's fairly easy to prevent a player from getting 24hrs of free time and 1000 credits, like some of the crafting recipes, but 8 hours is super easy to squeeze in and 10 credits can be found in their seat cushions. Grenades are similarly easy to cheese, but at least I can come up with roleplaying reasons why the authorities may not want someone manufacturing explosives in their garage, not so with shields.

Ya, I get it. If a player wants to cheese the system, there are tons of ways to do it. I just don't like that shields are such low hanging fruit and so un-Star Wars-y. Yes, yes, I know that plenty of iconic characters in Star Wars had shields, but you never see the smuggles, diplomates or mechanics walking around with them.

49 minutes ago, SladeWeston said:

, but you never see the smuggles, diplomates or mechanics walking around with them.

Sometimes, sometimes the opportunity is just too great not to be used. I present you Associate Planetary Representative of Naboo and the Chommell sector, Junior Senator Jar Jar Binks's Action Figure.

Sorry, could not find quickly on of those shots in TCW which had him using a shield.

2 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

Sometimes, sometimes the opportunity is just too great not to be used. I present you Associate Planetary Representative of Naboo and the Chommell sector, Junior Senator Jar Jar Binks's Action Figure.

Sorry, could not find quickly on of those shots in TCW which had him using a shield.

I'm not sure where you pulled that image but I've never seen a creature like that in a real Star Wars movie.

Seriously though. If you have to pull out Jar Jar as an example of how shields are Star War-y you've proven my point.

The Courtship of Princess Leia

Quote

A thin, blue circular haze shimmered before Isolder, white at the edges, like a ring around a moon on a cold night. Personal shielding, she realised. ....

Personal shielding tended to provide minimal protection, because you couldn't get a power source strong enough to deflect enemy fire and still last for more than a moment. The second danger came from the shield itself — the energy shield got so hot that the wielders risked frying themselves if they accidentally touched it. ....

The Prince swung his shield as a weapon, and its energy field knocked his attackers backward. Blue sparks erupted in the air as he made contact. One man cried out and dropped his blaster, holding his burned face. Isolder raised his shield above his head, spub it and tossed it at the last attacker. The shielding caught the assassin in the chest, sliced through him like a lightsabre, and then Isolder stood alone with his blaster, aiming it at the remaining assassin, ....

29 minutes ago, SladeWeston said:

I'm not sure where you pulled that image but I've never seen a creature like that in a real Star Wars movie.

And, now to something completely different, standard issue clone trooper blast shields.

What's your point 2P51? That you were able to find a mention of a shield in the EU? Sure, there are dozens of mentions of shields in Star Wars. I said as much in my post. My point was that when you picture a group of Star Wars characters, how often do they have shields. Maybe one of them does, Ya, I can see that, but most of them? For me, an entire party decked out with shields just doesn't make work for me. Hey, maybe your's does? Actually, you playing with an entire party of Gungans would explain a lot.

2 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

And, now to something completely different, standard issue clone trooper blast shields.

Gahhh... if I thought my joke would lead to a feed full of Gungans I would never have made it.

And Yes, maybe if you are in an AoR style campaign, and in a squad of troopers and decked out in full battle armor, then a shield works. Of course you know the average player is just going to be walking around town with them making it that much more ridiculous.