49 minutes ago, lazycomet said:

What Epic have you been playing? Any STRESS or FOCUS assigned to an Epic Ship is immediately discarded. So no, the C-ROC doesn't simply ignore stress (I'd be fine if it COLLECTED STRESS while IGNORING IT--see: LattsRazzi and BlackMarketSlicerTools), the C-ROC exploits the newish "Stress As Currency" mechanic via Zuckuss. It's pure exploit since the C-ROC doesn't have to pay ANY price for Zuckuss Rerolls--whereas even just collecting it (while also ignoring it) is a price paid (Latts, BMST).

TL;DR
Epic Ship Rules are outdated in regards to Stress As Currency.

Esege allows focus token usage, he doesn't assign it, does he not?

Imperials, when pointed towards the potential brokenness of Palpy with this unlimited range usually resort to answering "oh he costs at least 29 pts".

Zuckuss on a C-roc with a hardpoint comes at least 41pts, usable for 1 attack? Hardly a case of the sky is falling?

6 hours ago, ABXY said:

What's intriguing is the place key word... does that essentially mean it's the same placement restrictions as initial obstacle set-up?

There's no range stated, and no reference card in the fan...?

- - -

Oh, hang on, just realised - these Epic ships usually have such things in a booklet.

Honestly, I wish they would have a reference card for_every_ keyword and action. Even things like Target Lock and Barrel Roll. Reference cards are simply _way_ more accessible than the rule book.

My go-bag for X-Wing includes 1 copy of every reference card they've put out. As a courtesy to my opponents, I pull out and put on the table all relevant reference card for my list. For newer players- especially ones that learn by reading- it would be handy to have even the Wave 1 actions represented.

One of these days I'll get around to making them myself, I guess.

3 hours ago, Transmogrifier said:

Broken Horn also boosts your energy capacity by 2, which is probably worth at least 4 points by itself.

C-ROC Cruiser (35)

Broken Horn (5)
Latts Razzi (2)
Shield Technician (1)
Single Turbolasers (8)
Frequency Jammer (4)
Backup Shield Generator (3)
Automated Protocols (5)

Total: 63

This is a build that can Jam + Reinforce most turns for crazy damage mitigation while still generating decent offense without the TL action via Single Turbolaser's built in free dice mod. By the time you get to shoot at PS1, most targets should have spent their tokens, meaning your expected 3 hits from Single Turbolaser should be able to punch through AGI 2 and below. The tricky part is that there isn't a huge incentive to attack the C-ROC when it's fully turtled up. I'd be tempted to add in Shield Projector, but 3 Energy to redirect 1 attack is a LOT.

I admit, I haven't actually tried Epic yet, so I have no idea how much the extra energy will be a factor. I mostly dig the extra crew and team slots that the Merchant One title gives, even if it means giving up a cargo slot. Scum have lots of great Crew, and getting a Gunnery Team AND an Engineering Team for extra energy generation seems pretty great.

For your build though, maybe throw in an EM Emitter? Then if your C-ROC is between the enemy and its target, you give them the choice of shooting your turtled C-ROC, or shooting at a target with three extra green dice. Not a great choice either way (for them, anyway)!

5 hours ago, xanderf said:

Noticed that. Wonder if that points to Scum getting a GR75 'repaint' at some point, or FFG just looking at what they already had that it worked with?

This might be a case of wanting to give options for other epic ships, and being loyal to the fluff that the GR75 and C-ROC are built on the same chassis.

3 hours ago, DailyRich said:

Did the article specify anything about a sideboard? It seems like you can just choose from any available upgrade you have provided it meets the requirements.

The big issue with the Hounds Tooth title is that it's a 6 point upgrade that only kicks in at the worst possible time. It's wasted points.

It looks like they're trying to avoid that with Cikatro Vizago and Azmorigan. You're spending points on the initial card, but not the replacement.

If this ends up being a problem, they might create a tournament rule that you have to declare your possible replacement cards in advance- but they won't count against your squad cost.

I hope they don't spoil Jabba the Hut. Keep it secret to the end. With Articles I would say 2 months.

BUT with no Wave XI announcements, could this be the GenCon Nova sales only ship? Dovetails into the future release schedule with Worlds. Slow down a little. Get caught up with the busy Story Group. Release a campaign demoed at GenCon and Nova with new Tourney format. Hmmmm..... So many possibilities.

Remember, the Heavy Laser Turret is only one Hard Point to consider. Other ones give many many many more build options.

I just don't see it as any different from discarding an ordnance card or Illicit or Boba Fett taking something away. Your squad's points are set at the start of the match and nothing that happens afterward affects that.

Can't wait for more... glad its up

3 hours ago, baxio said:

Really? Zuckus? I figured this would get banned from huge ships like Navigator and Bigg's ability, but apparently not...

Do they even playtest the huge ships?

How is Zuckuss broken? Sure the huge ship doesn't get stressed but then again the huge ships don't have as powerful of attack dice (because along with no stress there is also no focus) and the C-ROC can only make 1 attack. If Zuckuss was on the Raider I could understand the concern with its 5 attacks. Zuckuss seems almost like it reverses the strengths and weakness of Huge ship attacks. For huge ships high agility has a way better time surviving shots than low agility since huge ships can make multiple attacks. however Zuckuss turns that on its head where high agility ships will now having a hard time having to reroll focus and evade results. However when the defender can use focus after the reroll and the attacker can it balances out. Not to mention Autothrusters can still mod blanks if outside of arc.

You are panicking too much because one little element to balance it out in standard is not there for huge ships. and to be frank, it doesn't need to be there for this case.

I don't really play much of the epic rules for X Wing, as I have Armada to do that, but I like the ship. It has a certain character the others are lacking. Just need more standard stuff from another preview article. Or just an announcement for the next wave.

6 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

If Zuckuss was on the Raider I could understand the concern with its 5 attacks.

Isn't it a little short sighted to assume that this will be the only scum epic, and that they won't have a ship like tantive or raider in the future where this could come up?

Would rather get ahead of it by limiting g Zuckess to where he can do good but at a trade off instead of a virtually no cost bonus. Using a crew slot means little on this ship with how many crew slots it has (especially with Merchant One title)

On 2/20/2017 at 3:39 PM, ScummyRebel said:

Isn't it a little short sighted to assume that this will be the only scum epic, and that they won't have a ship like tantive or raider in the future where this could come up?

Would rather get ahead of it by limiting g Zuckess to where he can do good but at a trade off instead of a virtually no cost bonus. Using a crew slot means little on this ship with how many crew slots it has (especially with Merchant One title)

Of course it is not going to be the only scum epic. They will have a two hardpoint ship with a PWT attack of minimum(1-3) to maximum range.of (3-5).

Still you don't really get the point, Huge ship weapons are not the same as weapons put on a YT-2400 or a TIE-Defender (that focus token does make a world of a difference). That being those high agility ships really get around huge ships range 3-5 shots as if they weren't even there. Sure they may be 4 attack but with only 50% accuracy they end up being only 2 hits. Now in standard where you find zuckuss on Manaroo for one there is a focus token on Manaroo so those 4 dice torpedo attacks have 75% so your ships have to do a three hit dodge, which is harder for 3 agility ships to roll. For that there needs to be a stress penalty on Zuckuss.

Still as far as the scum gunship that will inevitability come out next year or so. I doubt it is going to be as shooty as its counterparts in the Rebel and Imperial factions. Since the CR-90 adds one die and the Raider makes an additional attack. I can only see the boost for the Scum ship maybe in range or something so I don't expect 5 attacks or 5-8 dice being thrown at you in a single attack.

Lol, they corrected the 4-crew spread, but there are still Slicer Tools (7 points) in the Cikatro Vizago example.

I sometimes wonder if the people wirting the articles do it on purpose, to see how long it will take us to find that stuff

I wonder if the un-revealed Cannon could have an Epic symbol on it, and be the first non-Huge ship upgrade with a range beyond 3?

For those complaining about Zuckuss on the C-ROC... This is scum, deal with it

In all seriousness tho, Zuckuss on the C-ROC will only trigger once per round, I don't think it will be overpowered coming from a huge ship that needs all the help it can get to modify dice and have its hits connect. If it ends up being overpowered FFG will errata the Zuckuss crew card, but considering that they haven't right from the start of this releases preview it seems they are confident that it will be fair during gameplay.

7 minutes ago, ABXY said:

I wonder if the un-revealed Cannon could have an Epic symbol on it, and be the first non-Huge ship upgrade with a range beyond 3?

That would be interesting.... But I have a feeling its a cannon for normal play, possibly expendable one time use cannon with the introduction of scavenger crane as a way to get it back for another use? But somehow I doubt it will be expendable cannon since this release is focusing on the M3-A so much (which is a good thing for Scum players ) and the M3-A has no way to equip scavenger crane.

Zuckuss is more of an issue on the CROC by way of balance between it and the other epics than it is outright broken in its own rights.

C-ROC only has 1 attack (unless i missed something) and epic ships all have a common issue of bad dice modifications. They cant use Focus Tokens and Targetlocks are difficult to get due to the action-deprived nature of epic ships, so most of the time theyre just rolling raw dice. Zuckuss gives them a form of dice mods for no penalty, which is an edge over the other epics on its own, but Latts can potentially free up its action from Reinforce so it can get a TL too (or do some other action).

However unless theres a way to get multiple attacks or they get a 2card epic that is like the Raider im not sure if it'd be worth it. Its still only 1 attack and all these shenanigans only bring it to be on pare with normal ships on average.

edit: also im not mentioning combining it with Dengar to remove TL requirements because in Epic a TON of ships are generics, so Dengar wouldnt be very happy. Plus, afaik, epic ships dont count as unique pilots (since you can field multiples assuming enough epic points)

1 hour ago, ScummyRebel said:

Would rather get ahead of it by limiting g Zuckess to where he can do good but at a trade off instead of a virtually no cost bonus. Using a crew slot means little on this ship with how many crew slots it has (especially with Merchant One title)

Having 2 crew slots is bog standard on an epic ship. Heck! The CR-90 has a title that gives it an extra crew slot as well as an extra team slot. There is a _lot_ of competition for those slots- moreso for Scum. At first glance, Zuckuss seems fine.

5 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

Zuckuss is more of an issue on the CROC by way of balance between it and the other epics than it is outright broken in its own rights.

C-ROC only has 1 attack (unless i missed something) and epic ships all have a common issue of bad dice modifications. They cant use Focus Tokens and Targetlocks are difficult to get due to the action-deprived nature of epic ships, so most of the time theyre just rolling raw dice. Zuckuss gives them a form of dice mods for no penalty, which is an edge over the other epics on its own, but Latts can potentially free up its action from Reinforce so it can get a TL too (or do some other action).

However unless theres a way to get multiple attacks or they get a 2card epic that is like the Raider im not sure if it'd be worth it. Its still only 1 attack and all these shenanigans only bring it to be on pare with normal ships on average.

Yes, this. Especially given the range limitations on its Heavy Laser Turret. A Raider or CR-90 will get at least one turn of unopposed firing before the C-ROC can respond. Obviously a C-ROC should not plan to be the cap ship killer in its list.

2 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

Zuckuss is more of an issue on the CROC by way of balance between it and the other epics than it is outright broken in its own rights.

C-ROC only has 1 attack (unless i missed something) and epic ships all have a common issue of bad dice modifications. They cant use Focus Tokens and Targetlocks are difficult to get due to the action-deprived nature of epic ships, so most of the time theyre just rolling raw dice. Zuckuss gives them a form of dice mods for no penalty, which is an edge over the other epics on its own, but Latts can potentially free up its action from Reinforce so it can get a TL too (or do some other action).

However unless theres a way to get multiple attacks or they get a 2card epic that is like the Raider im not sure if it'd be worth it. Its still only 1 attack and all these shenanigans only bring it to be on pare with normal ships on average.

Well what do you mean between other epics? If you are talking C-roc vs Gozanti as in C-roc attacking Gozanti then considering the Gozanti has an agility of 0 there is no balance disparity as zuckuss just wouldn't affect anything on the attack unless it was beyond range 2. As far as in who can kill smaller ships with laser fire faster I think only for higher agility ships as for most 1 agility or zero agility ships if they don't roll any evades then nothing would have happen. However this might also balance against what is currently the most broken formation in epic and that is the IG-8000, the only thing is that there might be enough points to take both IG-8000 and a ZuCk-Rock which there okay start complaining about how Scum now not only dominates the tournament meta but the epic meta as well.

Thus X-wing might as well be renamed to Scum or Die!

comparison, not versus.

Gozanti pretty much ONLY does damage on a natural lucky roll. Its few slots are hogged up by utility stuff to support the fleet so its gun might as well not exist. Ive had several games with it where it didnt do anything all game with its guns (ramming not counting as damage) just because the 1-2 hits i get always get evaded anyway. Zuckuss would give you a higher chance of that 1-2 damage getting through. And he's cheap, while anything the Raider/Gozanti can do to raise accuracy is either eating their action or costing a fortune.

Obviously between each other hes a nonfactor since secondary weapons dont grant range bonus, epics are 0agi, and Reinforce adds its die after Zuckuss trigger. My biggest gripe about epics is they rely way too heavily on raw dice rolls so they basically dont do anything offensively outside ramming or stupid luck.

Also, side comment, BoShek in epic is going to be absolutely annoying.....one messed up maneuver on an epic ship can easily send it off too far from your fleets lol. BoShek doesnt have to be on the epic ship to trigger it but unless youre behind it you're probably getting squished for that trick lol

Scum doesn't have any super-useful support ships for epic ships right now, so it'll have to rely on it's upgrades to get by. (Manaroo who can only give a TL, IG-D crewmember, Serissiru but doesn't work well.) Rebel and Imperial have access to Roark, Esque, Jan, Jonus, Howlrunner that really can boost their performance. Currently, the CROC has to rely on it's crew, with probably just Sessiru around for a cheap PS boost, and possibly IGD crew for shield regen. (Actually, that would be it's strongest set-up, and even then it's only one attack.)

If anything, when they do the large Epic attack ship, IGD crew with the Brobots will be the killer list. Being able to regen after destroying ships is effectively a free recover. In that particular list, Zuckuss would be extremely useful to push damage through. But unlike the others, it's relying on rerolling the opponent's dice rather than it's own attack dice. EDIT" Unless you carry Dengar of course too, duh. lol.

9 hours ago, Mr Slippery said:

Base 35 points seems cheap compared to the assault carrier, which is 40. Not much difference between the base stat line with one less shield but an extra hull, and ps1 rather than PS 2.

The assaults carrier killer feature is bringing the bombers in for an instant torpedo run. It is rather nice to get your torpedos out without needing to deal first with a complicated approach which kills half your alpha strike before you are in range.

10 hours ago, Budgernaut said:

Assailer only costs 2 and can be used for the whole combat phase. Broken Horn is guaranteed, but it costs more and you can only use it once per combat phase. After you defend, you have to discard the Reinforce token, so you can no longer trigger the title. If you're taking a ton of fire, Assailer could be better, but if your opponent only has a single shot on your huge ship, you can't beat Broken Horn .

9 hours ago, Transmogrifier said:

Broken Horn is a 'may' ability, so you can just wait until the last shot against your C-ROC to trigger the ability. This presumes you know which attack will be the last one against your C-ROC, but if you are psyching your opponent into splitting fire then that's probably not bad either.

Assailer only works when you're rolling a defense die and you have a reinforce token. With 0 agility the Raider only rolls a defense die against primary weapons at range 3 or if obstructed. Plus to activate you have to roll a focus - a 2/8 chance (overall a 5/8 chance of getting an evade). So really specific circumstances. I prefer Broken Horn as it's an ability you can easily trigger, the only requirement is a reinforce token, and you can chose when to use it (presumably if you have critical hits incoming). Plus it ups your energy limit by 2. A bargain at 5 points.

15 hours ago, Managarmr said:

Esege allows focus token usage, he doesn't assign it, does he not?

Imperials, when pointed towards the potential brokenness of Palpy with this unlimited range usually resort to answering "oh he costs at least 29 pts".

Zuckuss on a C-roc with a hardpoint comes at least 41pts, usable for 1 attack? Hardly a case of the sky is falling?

a) Focus, evade, and stress tokens do not affect huge ships.

b) [Esege] When another friendly ship at Range 1-2 is attacking, it may treat your focus tokens as its own.

So no, [Esege] doesn't allow an Epic Ship to "spend" a focus, ever. Period.

Sky isn't falling, I never said it was. Zuckuss-Epic-Exploit isn't about Damage Potential or even Winning Games... it's about denying other STRESS BROKERS (Latts Razzi, BMST, etc) from even tapping into the Pool that **should** still be there even if Epic Ships ignore stress.