I feel guilty for always asking for list advice and never being able to give it, but here goes again.

I'm thinking about buying a StarViper for the Autothrusters, but I'd like to be able to use it in a list, especially as I think the ship is pretty cool in-game and out. I came up with a budget list requiring only one other ship purchase and a few inexpensive cards bought online, but I have concerns over whether this two-ship list could stand up in the 'powerful casual' games it's likely to be put through. (For reference, my typical opponents play lists like Rey and Poe, Inquisitor and Defenders, and Inquisitor, Vader, and Fel.) I'd like to know whether the Hound's Tooth would be a wise followup purchase or if I should look at something else. Incidentally, I'm also looking at trying to repaint them!

Here's the list I came up with:

Bossk (35)

7 / 3 / 1 / 6 / 6

Calculation (1)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

4-LOM* (1)

Dengar* (3)

Outlaw Tech (2)

Engine Upgrade (4)

(53)

Guri (30)

5 / 3 / 3 / 4 / 1

Virago (1)

Lone Wolf (2)

Advanced Proton Torpedoes* (6)

Sensor Jammer* (4)

Cloaking Device* (2)

Autothrusters (2)

(47)

(100)

(Starred are the cards that don't come with these two expansions.)

I guess I could put Zuckuss on Bossk for a Party Bus, but all the stress seems to lend itself to a suicide ship, which in a two-ship list I'm not sure is what I want.

Thank you for your input.

For as fast as a YV burns, I would trade down to the basic PartyBus, or maybe PartyBus 2.0 (HotCop/Gunner/Bossk). Drop the torp and Cloak from Guri and put in a Z95 or a Scyk for a little unexpected damage here and there. If you can swing the points, a TLT Thug is very good here.

All right, thank you. I was afraid I'd have to put a third ship in, but that's okay.

The 'Viper is maybe my favorite ship to fly. Casual, they're just fine; they just need a little something-something to make them awesome-sauce. What they really need is something scarier to draw your opponent's attention away from her, and then let Guri mop up. I've had success with a pair of Scyks, or a JM5K, or even Palob and a Y sporting TLTs.

Personally, I wouldn't bother with the Hound's Tooth. It's a bugger to paint, for one - all those flat panels! You can get some decent crew shenanigans going on, but they are a bit dull to fly. Just....big bricks in space. Flown well (and I make no claim to that), the YV can absolutely wreck someone's day. Just maybe not good in a two-ship list. Your Bossk build above is solid - I'd switch to VI instead of Calculation, but yes. And then pair him with a couple Syndicate Thugs with TLTs. Don't know if all that's in your budget, but the Thugs can really take the heat off the YV.

Yeah, I was practicing with a tricked-out Guri on Squadron Benchmark and it was so much fun! Okay, I will consider my options some more. Thanks for the notes on the YV - it's good to know that's a reasonable loadout if I ever go back to it.

TLTs, unfortunately, I don't think will be an option for me due to availability/cost. It's good to know what the best choice is if that changes in future, though.

Thanks!

Edit: Actually, I should ask, since I considered this before the two-ship build: is the Ruthless Freelancer just dead weight? I saw someone ran FCS Gand Findsmen at ... something something Regionals.

Guri (30), Virago (1), Lone Wolf (2), Sensor Jammer (4), Cloaking Device (2), Autothrusters (2) (41)

Trandoshan Slaver (29), 4-LOM (1), Dengar (3), Zuckuss (1) (34)

Ruthless Freelancer (23), Fire-Control System (2) (25)

(100)

Ruthless Freelancer can pull his weight. Especially in a list like this, people are probably going to be much more frightened of everything else in your list, allowing him to hit pretty hard. That said, he also burns pretty quickly once your opponent starts to focus him, and his dial is barely any better than than the brick. Although, that may make him the perfect wingman for the YV, ha ha. Formation flying with large/small base can be challenging, but may be very well worth the effort here. I like it. I may have to try this.

As somebody about to set forth on an adventure with Guri... is sensor jammer still effective in this focus frenzied time? I can see it being excellent versus TLT, but with expertise, and mindlinked Manaroo... focus seems rather abundant. I'm asking because I just don't know.

I've been pulling out ships I haven't... well, used. The Starviper is not one of my preferred EU designs, but I like some of the elements it brings.

One other guy at my FLGS swears by Sensor Jammer...heatedly. I personally much prefer Advanced Sensors. Like, exclusively. But I prefer a maneuverable damage dealer and he prefers tanks. I think your assessment of the focus-filled meta is apt; SJ isn't as strong as it used to be.

If you have the Scum HWK, Palob can empower SJ on Guri. If you fly well. And has a Biggs-like effect on the game. Depending on how you kit him out, leaves room for any number of third ships.

Thoughts on Sensor Jammers: 1) can force an opponent to burn a focus for offence instead of save for defense if a high PS OR they may have a hard time deciding to use one def or save for their counter shot with a low PS 2) combo's really well with a HSCP or Palob 3) Forces opponent to take a focus instead of evades or target locks in situations other than Manaroo/attanni. I have a neighbor that uses them a lot on Phantoms to great affect

I just wanted to mention that I've flown a lot of Guri, and my favourite build is with LW + Sensor Jammer. While it doesn't have as much re-positional advantages, it absolutely wins certain matchups (1v1, she's almost impossible to kill for most ships). For example, I had a game where it was nearly full health Han vs Guri and thanks to LW, SJ & thrusters, Guri managed to bring the YT down

Having said that, I agree with the sentiment that now might not be the best time for SJ. There certainly is a prevalence of focus tokens, limiting its value in certain matchups. Mindlink Guri w/ FCS is another option (and cheaper!). Or if you don't plan on using Mindlink, either lone wolf, predator or push the limit all work well on her in conjunction with Advanced Sensors. And Advanced sensors are quite advantageous if you go up against bomb-carriers frequently, since they will often lay their bomb tokens in front of your ship, but with sensors, you can barrel roll around them

Very interesting insights on Sensor Jammer!

Kleeg, if you do give a list along these lines a whirl, I'd love to hear your results. I'm going to keep brewing and try to test some stuff on Squadron Benchmark.

Unrelated to the list itself, can I just express how much I love the title of this article

On 2/21/2017 at 7:31 PM, Kleeg005 said:

The 'Viper is maybe my favorite ship to fly. Casual, they're just fine; they just need a little something-something to make them awesome-sauce. What they really need is something scarier to draw your opponent's attention away from her, and then let Guri mop up. I've had success with a pair of Scyks, or a JM5K, or even Palob and a Y sporting TLTs.

Personally, I wouldn't bother with the Hound's Tooth. It's a bugger to paint, for one - all those flat panels! You can get some decent crew shenanigans going on, but they are a bit dull to fly. Just....big bricks in space. Flown well (and I make no claim to that), the YV can absolutely wreck someone's day. Just maybe not good in a two-ship list. Your Bossk build above is solid - I'd switch to VI instead of Calculation, but yes. And then pair him with a couple Syndicate Thugs with TLTs. Don't know if all that's in your budget, but the Thugs can really take the heat off the YV.

Casual? Nah, go all the way! I take them to my locals, with great results. :3

Thanks, Toph! (Just for fun: in real life, I play(ed) the clarinet, which I believe is the sound of the instrument the 'fizzz' in the cantina band. This leads me to feel special.)

Epixca ... may I see your list? Might be out of my budget, but I'd love the inspiration.

So, exploring other ship pairings, I thought I'd look into Dengar. The StarViper is overcosted, the Jumpmaster is undercosted, maybe it evens out? It appears a fair number of people online have tried it, as well. Of course, it will be completely impossible to justify pairing Dengar with Guri and not Manaroo, but hey.

It seems people's go-to build before Dengaroo was Punishing One (12), Push the Limit (3), K4 Security Droid (3), Unhinged Astromech (1) [why is he Unhinged? He seems to make your flying safer, not more reckless], and Engine Upgrade (4), for 56. Turn Guri's Adv. Proton Torps into Plasma Torps on Dengar and I have 100. Dengar does add a lot of firepower, but it would be up to my positioning for his defence, and I don't know how I'd get the Lone Wolf or Engine Upgrade for this list.

I also saw some people suggest Punishing One (12), Wired (1), Zuckuss (1), and R5-P8 (3) for 50 as well, which would be a lot more doable for me. Scarcely less suicidal than Bossk, but at least there's some mutually-assured destruction involved. Recon Specialist came up several times, too. I could always Mindlink the ships (Dengar a la Torfs-ish):

Guri (30), Virago (1), Attanni Mindlink (1), Sensor Jammer (4), Cloaking Device (2), Autothrusters (2) (40)

Dengar (33), Punishing One (12), Attanni Mindlink (1), Zuckuss (1), Overclocked R4 (1) [this guy I understand. Poor droid's so focused on his job; he's overworked!] (48)

Hmm, this comes to 88. Er - hello, Binayre Pirate! (Alternatively, a run on Outer Rim torpedo stocks.)

Edit: I just realized this may be a horrible idea. I will stress Guri ...

Edit: Another idea. This is maybe just more theory-crafting, as it includes a lot of problem cards for me to obtain, but I thought it looked cool:

Guri (30), Virago (1), Lone Wolf (2), Sensor Jammer (4), Autothrusters (2) (39)

Dengar (33), Punishing One (12), Expertise (4), Hotshot Copilot (4), R5-P8 (3) [??], Engine Upgrade (4) (60)

(99)

Hotshot Copilot seems to synergize with Sensor Jammer and Dengar himself, and Expertise seems good with the double-tap (and helps make up for reduced action economy without PtL and/or K4 Security Droid).

5 hours ago, TheHumanHydra said:

Edit: Another idea. This is maybe just more theory-crafting, as it includes a lot of problem cards for me to obtain, but I thought it looked cool:

Guri (30), Virago (1), Lone Wolf (2), Sensor Jammer (4), Autothrusters (2) (39)

Dengar (33), Punishing One (12), Expertise (4), Hotshot Copilot (4), R5-P8 (3) [??], Engine Upgrade (4) (60)

(99)

Hotshot Copilot seems to synergize with Sensor Jammer and Dengar himself, and Expertise seems good with the double-tap (and helps make up for reduced action economy without PtL and/or K4 Security Droid).

This one. This is actually a good list!

Dengar goes head-to-head and Guri flanks. Simple but effective!

19 hours ago, blade_mercurial said:

This one. This is actually a good list!

Dengar goes head-to-head and Guri flanks. Simple but effective!

Thanks! I shall call it ... Denguri. Lol.

Is R5-P8 the best choice for those last three (or four) points? It's the most thrown-in part of the list (doesn't even have to be an astromech). Could also be, I don't know, Plasma Torps and Unhinged.

I've only flown against R5-P8, so my perspective may be jaded, but I found it very effective for 3 points.

I might give this a try. I'm weeks away in my 'to try' lists but it looks interesting. If I manage to try it sooner, I'll post back.

I think the opponent's perspective is pretty legitimate and very insightful, so I find that helpful, blade_mercurial!

LagJanson, sweet! I'd love to hear about it whether sooner or later.

19 hours ago, TheHumanHydra said:

Thanks! I shall call it ... Denguri. Lol.

Is R5-P8 the best choice for those last three (or four) points? It's the most thrown-in part of the list (doesn't even have to be an astromech). Could also be, I don't know, Plasma Torps and Unhinged.

Or, if you are a Pokemon fan. You could call it Gengar!

DIdn't know that one, but it's funny, too!

On 2/25/2017 at 7:24 AM, TheHumanHydra said:

Very interesting insights on Sensor Jammer!

Kleeg, if you do give a list along these lines a whirl, I'd love to hear your results. I'm going to keep brewing and try to test some stuff on Squadron Benchmark.

Okay. I have been watching some of the theory work on another thread here:

So, I decided to sort of combine both thoughts into one.

Slaver/HotCop/Gunner/Bossk (Partybus 2.0)

Torkil/TLT/ID/Dengar

Freelancer/Gunner/FCS/ID

vs.

Xizor/Virago/AdvSens/Cloak/AT/Predator/Seismic Torp (because I had points)

2x Thug/TLT/UMech/ProxMine

First test was a blow-out. Messed up deployment of PartyBus and Torkil, and they all just got slaughtered. Second test was *much* closer, ending with a 3 Hull Xizor dancing with a 7 health Freelancer. The Illicit Cloak gave the game to Xizor in the end - that added maneuverability was fantastic.

In both tests, I played Xizor and the Bus as Target #1 for the their respective sides, as they were the heaviest hitters. And in both tests, the PartyBus almost single-handedly ate a Y-Wing, but just melted as soon as Xizor got behind it. Even with Torkil running interference, I couldn't keep the rear of the YV safe. But a YV isn't a terrible trade for a bomb-toting TLT Y. Because Torkil was such a pain - and a menace to Xizor - he became de facto Target #2. The Freelancer always ended up as the last target, and that FCS/Gunner combo was fantastic. In the second game, solo vs. Xizor at the end, it allowed him to make full use of his dial - didn't have to worry about stress shutting down attack modifications.

Edit: I should note that in both tests I used Xizor's pilot ability at least three times. Those poor, poor Thugs.

So, the PartyBus list could use some more practice. For me at least; I just can't seem to make the YV a credible threat. And if I could find points to trade Torkil up to Palob, I would do so in a heartbeat. But the Freelancer? Yeah, that's good.

Makes me want to try a double 'Viper/Freelancer list.

On 2/25/2017 at 10:57 AM, Epixca said:

Casual? Nah, go all the way! I take them to my locals, with great results. :3

Oh, I have done! Guri and Xizor have given me a fourth and a second at store tournaments, and double Scyk/Guri Mindlink served me very well at last month's Regional. It's still just a little susceptible to Green Dice Failure, ha ha. That's really the only thing keeping the 'Viper from superstardom.

Well, that's some testing efficiency! Thanks for the report.

Fooling around in the wake of the preview, and found the points actually work. What do you think of this?

Fenn Rau (28)

9 / 3 / 3 / 4 / 0

Concord Dawn Protector (1)

Push the Limit (3)

Autothrusters (2)

(34)

Genesis Red (19)

7+2 / 2 / 3 / 2+1 / 1

“Heavy Scyk” Interceptor (2)

Veteran Instincts (1)

“Mangler” Cannon (4)

(26)

Guri (30)

5 / 3 / 3 / 4 / 1

Virago (1)

Lone Wolf* (2) or Predator* (3)

Sensor Jammer (4)

Autothrusters (2)

(39 or 40)

(99 or 100)