The topic of this thread is about FFG delivering both SoR on time per disturbers and more Awakening. Yet there is complaining about them not doing that, just saying........
Maybe wait for them to miss the mark before criticizing they missed the mark. Otherwise it is just a bunch of bored and pathetic people who are avoiding doing their job.
I think we're allowed to be skeptical, no matter what distributors are saying. The update page still shows product at the printers, FYI.
2 hours ago, soviet prince said:If they start deleting criticism post then I am out of here......
it's not that we hate the game it's the exact opposite, we see the potential but instead of living up to there full potential we have to sit and watch FFG screw it all up. I want to promote the game but I am not getting anyone into the game just to tell them there is no product to buy.
But FFG hasn't screwed anything up technically. They produced a game that sold out in every run so far. There's thriving groups on FB and local stores are running events with or without prize support.
There's just a small vocal group here that is critizing FFG and "sky is falling" the game in the first three months. The naysayers here represent a fraction of the overall interested parties. This game is bringing people who have never even heard of FFG to the table.
46 minutes ago, Hawkman2000 said:But FFG hasn't screwed anything up technically. They produced a game that sold out in every run so far. There's thriving groups on FB and local stores are running events with or without prize support.
There's just a small vocal group here that is critizing FFG and "sky is falling" the game in the first three months. The naysayers here represent a fraction of the overall interested parties. This game is bringing people who have never even heard of FFG to the table.
Remember, "The people playing the game are not complaining on the fourms."
Agree 100%.
1 hour ago, Hawkman2000 said:But FFG hasn't screwed anything up technically. They produced a game that sold out in every run so far. There's thriving groups on FB and local stores are running events with or without prize support.
There's just a small vocal group here that is critizing FFG and "sky is falling" the game in the first three months. The naysayers here represent a fraction of the overall interested parties. This game is bringing people who have never even heard of FFG to the table.
yes they have it sold out because they did not produce enough, I am not shouting the sky is falling I am stating the reality of the situation they did not do there homework. Like I said before this is not the first time they done this but I understand why they keep repeating the same mistakes because there supporters seem to give them a free pass every time instead of making them admit they need to do better.
21 hours ago, soviet prince said:yes they have it sold out because they did not produce enough, I am not shouting the sky is falling I am stating the reality of the situation they did not do there homework. Like I said before this is not the first time they done this but I understand why they keep repeating the same mistakes because there supporters seem to give them a free pass every time instead of making them admit they need to do better.
From what I have heard from store owners/distributors, FFG made many times what was pre-ordered by the stores when Awakenings was in production (i.e. they did their homework and made more than what they showed the demand to be at the time). Once it released and demand was shown to be much higher than expected they did what they could (which wasn't a whole lot since they were already going on set #2). I know many stores blamed FFG for not making enough product when they failed to pre-order any when it was first being printed (and what FFG based their production on). Who's fault is that? I can't say it all rests on FFG, although they are not free from blame either.
It's a new game, no one is to blame. I when the Dec set comes out and this is still a problem, then the blame game can start.
3 hours ago, agentc13 said:From what I have heard from store owners/distributors, FFG made many times what was pre-ordered by the stores when Awakenings was in production (i.e. they did their homework and made more than what they showed the demand to be at the time). Once it released and demand was shown to be much higher than expected they did what they could (which wasn't a whole lot since they were already going on set #2). I know many stores blamed FFG for not making enough product when they failed to pre-order any when it was first being printed (and what FFG based their production on). Who's fault is that? I can't say it all rests on FFG, although they are not free from blame either.
they had to know not a lot of stores is going to preorder them especially when the game is as new as this is.
28 minutes ago, soviet prince said:they had to know not a lot of stores is going to preorder them especially when the game is as new as this is.
Some stores order directly from FFG and Distributors order from FFG. Those are the hard numbers FFG gets. They have the opportunity to increase the order they place with their manufacturer. The more preorders they get the bigger the order they place with their supplier.
I can tell you for a fact that in my area the interest level in Destiny was low until the prerelease event. I didn't even know we were having one. I went in one of my stores the Sunday after the event because of what I read online so I could preorder 3 boxes of boosters. I was the first person to preorder at that store and our other store didn't get a single preorder. The store I ordered from had 6 more booster boxes ordered prior to the release date. They received 3 boxes and my other store received 1 box.
Three of us who preordered were able to buy 1 box each on release day. I was there when they opened the store thinking I would get all three boxes I ordered. While I was opening my box at least 6 people came in looking to buy Destiny. They should have placed a preorder.
That is the reality of new game releases in today's world. It's not just FFG. I didn't preorder Grimslingers when it came out last year. Consequently I didn't get a copy until a couple weeks ago. I knew I wanted Ashes: Rise of the Phoenix Born and preordered 2 boxes. Many who didn't had to wait months for the second printing. I also preordered both sets of expansion characters for Ashes and didn't have to wait while others did. Shortages happen more than you think.
1 hour ago, Starbane said:Some stores order directly from FFG and Distributors order from FFG. Those are the hard numbers FFG gets. They have the opportunity to increase the order they place with their manufacturer. The more preorders they get the bigger the order they place with their supplier.
I can tell you for a fact that in my area the interest level in Destiny was low until the prerelease event. I didn't even know we were having one. I went in one of my stores the Sunday after the event because of what I read online so I could preorder 3 boxes of boosters. I was the first person to preorder at that store and our other store didn't get a single preorder. The store I ordered from had 6 more booster boxes ordered prior to the release date. They received 3 boxes and my other store received 1 box.
Three of us who preordered were able to buy 1 box each on release day. I was there when they opened the store thinking I would get all three boxes I ordered. While I was opening my box at least 6 people came in looking to buy Destiny. They should have placed a preorder.
That is the reality of new game releases in today's world. It's not just FFG. I didn't preorder Grimslingers when it came out last year. Consequently I didn't get a copy until a couple weeks ago. I knew I wanted Ashes: Rise of the Phoenix Born and preordered 2 boxes. Many who didn't had to wait months for the second printing. I also preordered both sets of expansion characters for Ashes and didn't have to wait while others did. Shortages happen more than you think.
they may happen with lcg's and other games but I have never encountered a ccg that has run out of product. lcg are different then ccg's and must be treated different
3 hours ago, soviet prince said:they may happen with lcg's and other games but I have never encountered a ccg that has run out of product. lcg are different then ccg's and must be treated different
Collectible Dice Games must also be treated differently than CCG. It's not just printing cards, there are dice involved and with that more production cost and time. If I remember correctly, Dicemasters also had a lot of production issue during the first set.
I also remember a lot of people complaining about the collectible model at first, saying they won't touch that money pit. The game was not that well received when it was first announced so I have no trouble believing that FFG could not properly gouge the demand. Better to order less than being stuck with a product sitting in your warehouse. It sucks for new players, but from a buisness point of view, I think they made the right move. Now, let's just see how they dealt with the second set.
14 hours ago, Starbane said:I knew I wanted Ashes: Rise of the Phoenix Born and preordered 2 boxes. Many who didn't had to wait months for the second printing. I also preordered both sets of expansion characters for Ashes and didn't have to wait while others did. Shortages happen more than you think.
I got Ashes in store 2 weeks ago, CSI has skads of it in stock. If people are waiting for that game they need to look for it, it's not hard to find or needed a preorder. Really sick of the should have preordered arguments too. I didn't preorder crap and got 2 boxes, 4 starters, and a handful of packs. This was a matter of luck and no one knew if it would be popular. Save the hindsight and crystal ball prophesies but more is coming and hopefully new players get it and not resalers. Btw after 2 boxes I had a small stack of waste and needed several cards yet. This game requires high buy numbers or second hand ****** to get a good collection, maybe SOR will change that but I doubt it. The game requires product and they are doing what they can but there is no denying this game is not gonna be cheap and when more people realise that demand will fall at least lower than it is now.
On 2/20/2017 at 9:34 PM, soviet prince said:yes they have it sold out because they did not produce enough,
15 hours ago, soviet prince said:they had to know not a lot of stores is going to preorder them especially when the game is as new as this is.
So, on one hand you say FFG should have produced more material and then on the other hand say FFG should have known not to produce too much materials because stores will not pre-order so much of a new game.
Which strategy is it?
1 hour ago, LordFajubi said:I got Ashes in store 2 weeks ago, CSI has skads of it in stock. If people are waiting for that game they need to look for it, it's not hard to find or needed a preorder. Really sick of the should have preordered arguments too. I didn't preorder crap and got 2 boxes, 4 starters, and a handful of packs. This was a matter of luck and no one knew if it would be popular. Save the hindsight and crystal ball prophesies but more is coming and hopefully new players get it and not resalers. Btw after 2 boxes I had a small stack of waste and needed several cards yet. This game requires high buy numbers or second hand ****** to get a good collection, maybe SOR will change that but I doubt it. The game requires product and they are doing what they can but there is no denying this game is not gonna be cheap and when more people realise that demand will fall at least lower than it is now.
Ashes came out at Gencon 2015 IIRC, so you should be able to get it now. Plaid Hat offered preorders that they shipped and I received the week prior to Gencon. They took the rest of their stock to Gencon, around 7,500 units I think and promptly sold out. Those that didn't preorder and some who attended Gencon and didn't get lucky had to wait for the 2nd printing.
18 hours ago, Mep said:It's a new game, no one is to blame. I when the Dec set comes out and this is still a problem, then the blame game can start.
So how many new games does FFG have to screw up their production counts on before they deserve the blame? Honest question - when you look at the number of their games that are apparently so successful that it never could have been predicted, where's the line between "honest mistake" and "Oh, FFS, AGAIN??"
Ashes had real delivery problems. They last 2 Leo and Victoria were sold out before preorders were filled. People had to wait two months before more came in. This problem is hardly specific to FFG. I do understand people are frustrated, but it happens and it happens to other companies two. Ashes is also 3 or months behind on introducing their next wave of expansions, partly due to its parent company in negotiations to be bought out
3 hours ago, Hawkman2000 said:
So, on one hand you say FFG should have produced more material and then on the other hand say FFG should have known not to produce too much materials because stores will not pre-order so much of a new game.
Which strategy is it?
they both say the same thing, that they did not make enough ??? I said they should have known to produce more, preorders only represent a small portion of potential buyers
43 minutes ago, soviet prince said:they both say the same thing, that they did not make enough ??? I said they should have known to produce more, preorders only represent a small portion of potential buyers
Why would one ever not view the pre-orders as a good baseline of general interest? I don't understand your logic at all...
It's easy to call the shots and say how things should be done after the fact. I mean it is pretty obvious now that they should have made more product, but 6 months ago when it went in production did you think they needed it? I sure didn't.
All they can do is what they are doing (making the next set and reprinting this one when they can). Saying they are stupid and should know better by now doesn't change anything. I guess if you are upset enough about how they do things you can stop playing the games they make? I won't because they keep making games that are too **** fun.
I am lucky that my FLGS had the foresight to pre-order something like 64 booster boxes total (from 3 different distributors and FFG directly). They are out of product now like most everywhere is, but at least most people who were originally interested in the game got enough to build a few decks and play. I have my set, I give my extras to local players who need cards (or tokens, if they can't get the starters) and help grow the community in my area as much as I can. We had a pre-release event, and we're starting up a league in the area and the game is going to keep going here. I am positive despite all of this that the game will grow and thrive for years to come.
Trying to write this to not sound harsh, as I agree with both points here. I think the game is amazing, but I was only able to get one of each starter and that's been it since December, and the groups at our gaming stores here started out huge but have died off, since most people didn't get enough to really flesh out their decks.
Someone here or in another similar post made a comment about age, and I'll just say I've been playing CCGS since 1994, so I know how stuff like this can be when it takes off unexpectedly. I think its still way too soon to tell, hopefully they get more product on the market. But it is very frustrating, particularity with all the insane markups online retailers are doing(4 or 5 dollars a pack sure, but 20? nuh uh).
Question, has it been confirmed they are printing more of the base set?
33 minutes ago, Hawkman2000 said:Why would one ever not view the pre-orders as a good baseline of general interest? I don't understand your logic at all...
how many stores actually preorder a game esp a brand new one? most orders usually is after the fact when they see the game picking up and players asking for it.
you have to hold company's accountable for the mistakes, if you excuse everything they do like most ppl on these boards history will keep repeating it self, again this is not there first time
A lot of stores do exactly that. Seriously? What else do you think game companies use as a metric to base initial print runs off of? Do you also think they only made enough to cover those pre-orders?
You would have thought they had looked at the trouble with the first run of Dicemasters and realized demand would be very, very high. Not to mention it is Star Wars. I think groups like Team Covenent might be part if the problem too. How many boxes are they buying to sell these complete sets they offer? The lack of supply has lead to hyper inflation on the second hand market. Print more product and get it here pronto.
6 hours ago, Starbane said:Ashes came out at Gencon 2015 IIRC, so you should be able to get it now. Plaid Hat offered preorders that they shipped and I received the week prior to Gencon. They took the rest of their stock to Gencon, around 7,500 units I think and promptly sold out. Those that didn't preorder and some who attended Gencon and didn't get lucky had to wait for the 2nd printing.
Had no idea Ashes had been out that long. Never heard of it till a month ago. If it really is that old, good god did Destiny rip some play mechanics off, they are VERY similar.
4 minutes ago, LordFajubi said:Had no idea Ashes had been out that long. Never heard of it till a month ago. If it really is that old, good god did Destiny rip some play mechanics off, they are VERY similar.
Yeah, the whole alternating action mechanic is pretty similar. It's one of the things I like best about both games. Fortunately they use the dice in very different ways.