Why.

9 minutes ago, Aresius said:

Why.

Because the flotillas have no functional purpose other than delay. Its the lowest quality activation possible.

The list is entirely reliant on a ship which is incapable of turning.

17 hours ago, Vineheart01 said:

Ok, first off i dont think this ship is bad statswise, though i find it a little odd it doesnt have any defensive retrofits it still has good upgrade slot coverage.

My issue is: its tactics feel like its forcing me to play low squadrons frontal assault rebels, and i always felt like rebels lived and died by squadron shenanigans. The Home One atleast has a high squad value so it can be used as a mothership in addition to the high dice attack, Liberty's squadrons are kinda wasteful even with the title (considering the "only spend 1 defensive token" title is insane).

What are some good ways to get this thing to work? Ive used it about 4-5 times and every time it felt like i was trying to do something rebels shouldnt be doing. If i continue the heavy squadron strats using flotilla activations then the liberty basically doesnt do anything, but if i try to force the liberty to be a threat then i get swamped with fighters i cant fend off.

Fought against one once with Sato, Spinal armaments, Gunnery team and Major Derlin along with the Mon Karren title, and it was monstruous against my double ISD, since both were in blue range of the front arc, he managed to shred my shields and half my hull points in 1 shot...

21 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

Because the flotillas have no functional purpose other than delay. Its the lowest quality activation possible.

The list is entirely reliant on a ship which is incapable of turning.

I agree with Gink. The list certainly has some decent match-up possibilities in the meta right now. After all, that's a lot of anti-squadron potential in an anti-squadron meta. But with only one ship that can damage other ships, its pretty clear where you'd want your ships to end up on a turn so that they'd have follow-up shots on the following turn. Although the list might be hard to table and might be fine on denying big wins, its also going to struggle to put up big wins, and that's always one key thing I look for in my lists: can it get me consistent 8s, 9s, and 10s. That's the best way to run away with a tournament.

imho the key to taking advantage of the liberty is to forbid the opponent to target its flanks.

this is why imho it is better with an 80-30-30 build (+ flotilla and fighter cover)

the moment an opponent sees mc30s on its flanks, it gives him pause. even a confident opponent has to approach with huge caution.

i've tried several lists with liberties. my favorite was

mc80 star cruiser, dodonna, mon karren, engine techs, gunnery teams (139 pts)

mc30 torpedo frigate, admonition, OEs, APTs, h9s (88 pts)

mc30 torpedo frigate, advanced projectors, OEs, APTs (78 pts)

gr 75 & comms net (20 pts)

5 x a-wings & tycho celchu (71 pts)

been some time since i last played it, but you see the principle. fast, maneuverable, keep your opponent in your mc80s front arc. he can escape that front arc by-gettting close to the mc30s. easier said than done.

-mon karren also bypasses contains for dodonna-who in their right minds will use a contain token if that means he wont get to brace, evade or redir?

52 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

Because the flotillas have no functional purpose other than delay. Its the lowest quality activation possible.

The list is entirely reliant on a ship which is incapable of turning.

With navigation every turn she can trun well no? Flotillas in addiction to delay the activation can active squadrons for put down other squadrons or a small ship.

Btw it's only my idea

28 minutes ago, Kikaze said:

mc80 star cruiser, dodonna, mon karren, engine techs, gunnery teams (139 pts)

mc30 torpedo frigate, admonition, OEs, APTs, h9s (88 pts)

mc30 torpedo frigate, advanced projectors, OEs, APTs (78 pts)

gr 75 & comms net (20 pts)

5 x a-wings & tycho celchu (71 pts)

I like the principles. In practice, you can use obstacles, a side of the map, or even just placement advantage to set up the same walled effect. Knowing who has the bid and can pick first and who has activation advantage is also pretty critical to long term success and does a lot to mitigate those weak sides. And the sides are usually only the weak point if the enemy has a ton of squads that can get in them, or if they can reliably lock the redirect. After all, if you can use the redirect twice to burn all of your front and back shields, you're pretty much in the same place you'd be in if he hit you dead on in the front. That's why it is really more about bid/activation advantage than it is about some kind of formation that limits the approach to the sides.

i disagree.

he may have squadrons.

he may have tons of small ships that can flank you. redirect only works against single threats. multiple small threats will quickly burn it out.

and if ANY large size ship is worth its salt in this meta, it will easily lock away that redirect. it is an era where H9s are seen much more than x17s due to flotillas.

once you are out of these shields and/or redirects, critical effects will cripple the liberty and make it drop faster than a cheerleader on prom night.

2 hours ago, Kikaze said:

i disagree.

he may have squadrons.

he may have tons of small ships that can flank you. redirect only works against single threats. multiple small threats will quickly burn it out.

and if ANY large size ship is worth its salt in this meta, it will easily lock away that redirect. it is an era where H9s are seen much more than x17s due to flotillas.

once you are out of these shields and/or redirects, critical effects will cripple the liberty and make it drop faster than a cheerleader on prom night.

Squadrons: That's why you have squadrons. In my experience, Tycho/Shara/2x A-wings are often enough, in any event, you've got six squadrons, which ought to be more than enough.

Tons of small ships that can flank: Still depends upon who has initiative; f you position well at the start and maneuver well thereafter, they end up out of position. Although multiple small threats will burn out the redirect, if you also burn out your shields, it doesn't really matter. The redirect did what the redirect needed to do. Against any large ship, you either can keep him off that side arc with placement, bid, activation advantage, and maneuvering, or you need to learn to fly the ship better.

On ‎2‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 3:01 AM, Vineheart01 said:

Ok, first off i dont think this ship is bad statswise, though i find it a little odd it doesnt have any defensive retrofits it still has good upgrade slot coverage.

My issue is: its tactics feel like its forcing me to play low squadrons frontal assault rebels, and i always felt like rebels lived and died by squadron shenanigans. The Home One atleast has a high squad value so it can be used as a mothership in addition to the high dice attack, Liberty's squadrons are kinda wasteful even with the title (considering the "only spend 1 defensive token" title is insane).

What are some good ways to get this thing to work? Ive used it about 4-5 times and every time it felt like i was trying to do something rebels shouldnt be doing. If i continue the heavy squadron strats using flotilla activations then the liberty basically doesnt do anything, but if i try to force the liberty to be a threat then i get swamped with fighters i cant fend off.

if your issue is with regards to Liberty-types not encouraging squadron usage, you could try:

-Sato

-Liberty title

-some a-wings

-GT

Bank a squadron token early. When you are about to fire on two targets send out your 2 squadrons to paint your targets. you can now fire at two targets with sato-enhanced dice. you could also use x-wings and y-wings if your squadron placement is good in the early game.

On February 17, 2017 at 11:01 AM, Vineheart01 said:

Ok, first off i dont think this ship is bad statswise, though i find it a little odd it doesnt have any defensive retrofits it still has good upgrade slot coverage.

My issue is: its tactics feel like its forcing me to play low squadrons frontal assault rebels, and i always felt like rebels lived and died by squadron shenanigans. The Home One atleast has a high squad value so it can be used as a mothership in addition to the high dice attack, Liberty's squadrons are kinda wasteful even with the title (considering the "only spend 1 defensive token" title is insane).

What are some good ways to get this thing to work? Ive used it about 4-5 times and every time it felt like i was trying to do something rebels shouldnt be doing. If i continue the heavy squadron strats using flotilla activations then the liberty basically doesnt do anything, but if i try to force the liberty to be a threat then i get swamped with fighters i cant fend off.

See, you're having the classic issue of finding that a large ship is totally inefficient compared to the squadrons rebels have.

Also second classic issue, not having enough points to get enough activations.

And third classic issue, you find that large ship to be woefully not enough firepower anyways, and you need upgrades and side ships to even get close to the power parity you could have by simply dumping masses of squadrons at something.

Fourth, you find that you just die to squadrons now, or MSU. Cool.

-

And hell. One large ship is no fleet. That's a skirmish patrol. Two liberties. That's a fleet.

On 18/02/2017 at 10:18 PM, Aresius said:

This is the way!

Total: 395 / 400

MC80 Battle Cruiser
- Intel Officer
- Veteran Gunners
- Engine Techs
- High-Capacity Ion Turbines
- XI7 Turbolasers
- XX-9 Turbolasers
Total: (142)

GR-75 Medium Transports
- General Dodonna
Total: (38)

GR-75 Medium Transports
- Toryn Farr
- Bright Hope
Total: (27)

GR-75 Medium Transports
- Comms Net
Total: (20)

GR-75 Medium Transports
- Comms Net
Total: (20)

GR-75 Medium Transports
Total: (18)

A-wing Squadron x6 (66)
YT-2400 x4 (64)
Total Squadrons: 130

I'm keen on a rematch once the WC has finished.

32 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

See, you're having the classic issue of finding that a large ship is totally inefficient compared to the squadrons rebels have.

Also second classic issue, not having enough points to get enough activations.

And third classic issue, you find that large ship to be woefully not enough firepower anyways, and you need upgrades and side ships to even get close to the power parity you could have by simply dumping masses of squadrons at something.

Fourth, you find that you just die to squadrons now, or MSU. Cool.

-

And hell. One large ship is no fleet. That's a skirmish patrol. Two liberties. That's a fleet.

I think this is a wee bit pessimistic. Getting a gunnery teamed Lib behind an enemy fleet, hosing down a couple of ships for a good three turns isn't unattainable and is at least as good as massed squadrons, if not better (squads cant have xi7s, MK, intel officer etc). That's some serious efficiency, taking on ISDs etc from behind with the rear.

The panic effect as the player desperately tries to counter a speed 4 monster inevitably cruising behind their fleet is worth it alone from a tactical viewpoint and general entertainment - it'll skew their planning, and combined with 2 mc30s (or even a tooled up 1 mc30) he/she doesn't know where to look first.

I don't want to get into the "squads vs big ships" debate (both have merits IMHO, and ultimately its down to the player), and i certainly agree that Reb squad combos are immense, but the Lib, flown well (always the caveat with this game), is for me far and away the best value large ship in the game. Perhaps more importantly, its dynamic and fun + isn't too hard to make a dual Lib fleet what with the base SC being 96.

Lib til i die

27 minutes ago, JRockNZ said:

I'm keen on a rematch once the WC has finished.

Eheh, ok. I need some pratice with the new version ^^.

19 minutes ago, Aresius said:

Eheh, ok. I need some pratice with the new version ^^.

Nar original lists only.

Uh, ok :D.

So this is what I am fielding tomorrow in the local competition.

I will try to keep a rough AAR for those interested.
Of course a potential opponent could view this now, but hey it's getting late and I'm going to bed soon. C'est la vie (roughly 'we surrender' in French)

Stu's amazing dancing mollusks

It's pretty robust and it has lots of guns. The action economy is awful, but the bid is pretty heavy. I expect to get first player option.
If I do, I can kite and fighter coordinate whilst handing out two heavy blows per turn (possibly three).

19 minutes ago, stuuk said:

So this is what I am fielding tomorrow in the local competition.

I will try to keep a rough AAR for those interested.
Of course a potential opponent could view this now, but hey it's getting late and I'm going to bed soon. C'est la vie (roughly 'we surrender' in French)

Stu's amazing dancing mollusks

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 386/400

Commander: Garm Bel Iblis

Assault Objective: Targeting Beacons
Defense Objective: Fighter Ambush
Navigation Objective: Salvage Run

[ flagship ] MC80 Command Cruiser (106 points)
- Garm Bel Iblis ( 25 points)
- Expanded Hangar Bay ( 5 points)
- H9 Turbolasers ( 8 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 148 total ship cost

MC80 Battle Cruiser (103 points)
- Mon Karren ( 8 points)
- Skilled First Officer ( 1 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
- XX-9 Turbolasers ( 5 points)
= 138 total ship cost

2 B-Wing Squadrons ( 28 points)
2 X-Wing Squadrons ( 26 points)
1 HWK-290 ( 12 points)
1 Keyan Farlander ( 20 points)
1 Rogue Squadron ( 14 points)

Card view link

Fleet created with Armada Warlords

2015-17 © Armada Warlords

Double activation only is pretty dangerous to run, you get out activated and out deployed WAY too easily, and lets more enemy ships focus yours in turns, spending A LOT of your defense tokens relatively quickly as well as shields

Indeed yes it does. If I lose one of my capital ships and my fighters in a game and also kill nothing I expect to lose 9-1.

But I do have a lot of guns.

Let us know how you get on with this - whilst it is limited in activations/ deployments, solid play can mitigate these/ make the most of our big guns. All the best with your competition!

So.. it was a bit of a blow out. 6 were to attend, but only three did and there was no spare.
The tournament didn't run and myself and one of the two other guys played a game. The 3rd bloke headed to his local club a few streets away.
In fairness to the shop owner, he asked for no payment and allowed us to use the room, can't say fairer than that really.

The one game was my mollusks versus 2 x aquitens, 1 x Gozanti and a Demolisher, plus 130+ points of squadrons (Colonel Jendon (lambda); Dengar; Zertik Strom; Rhymer; Maarek Stele; and some others..)
I think both of us did things we wouldn't have normally done since the wind was now a bit of out our sails and we just wanted to throw some dice

I made the first mistake and instead of plunging in head first with Mon Karren, I braked. There was a lot of stuff in front of her, but she should have ploughed in.
The second mistake was Demolishers, who broadsided my MC-80 but ended up in both arcs. With first activation and some B-wings Demo was destroyed.
The Arquitens were sniping away though and with TRCs were doing a realiable 3-4 hits per turn, which was adding up.
X-wings tied up some of the fighters and got lucky in not getting killed.
I didn't make the best use of my B-wings and only got off a few shots against Demo.
The following turn, my MC-80 was destroyed by more Arquitens fire.
Mon Karren chased down and killed the Gozanti, but due to earlier breaking wasn't a major threat to the Arquitens.
She went down to sustained bombing from the large fighter swarm tricked out with so many cards and specials that frankly I couldn't keep track of them (I only got CC last week and haven't really studied the cards).

The Lambda allowed long range activation from the ships and allowed another squadron to fire. Dengar gave everyone counter one and projected intel.
Zertik threw a ton of red dice, double tapping with the Lambda. Stele doesn't miss. Oh and bomber command to reroll it all..
On top of that the silliest card in the game: Rhymer. Somehow allows the whole mess of all the above to then shoot to medium range.
Cleverly designed but I probably should have piled in with my fighters and tied them up as much as possible. Thing is B-wings don't pile anywhere quickly.

I had forgotten that no ships is a 400 point loss. D'uh. Major oversight there. (I'd lost only one x-wing)
We didn't bother to score it but I'd estimate 400-170 ish. (The Gozanti was the most wanted ship and had the flag too).