3 minutes ago, ShadoWarrior said:

I see a difference between slipping someone a rufie and a Prozac. Though a better analogy is injecting someone with scopolamine (a mind-control drug) versus Prozac (an antidepressant).

All of those are really ******* sketchy acts.

Is that how you see Leia as behaving?

ANYWAY......Back on topic.

Does anyone know if we'll see Maz again in this one? And I hope to goodness that we see Phasma and Kylo Ren improve as characters.

I don't think Ren is salvagaeble, and Phasma has received so little characterization that she's barely a sketch so far, and seems completely superfluous to the story going forward.

4 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:

I don't think Ren is salvagaeble, and Phasma has received so little characterization that she's barely a sketch so far, and seems completely superfluous to the story going forward.

I'd like to see someone salvage them nevertheless. There's a lot of potential material there if someone is willing to clean it up and work with it.

Boy, do I wish I'd gotten my hands on that script....

2 minutes ago, Vestij Jai Galaar said:

Boy, do I wish I'd gotten my hands on that script....

You and almost every Star Wars fan! It was a terrible script for the Imperials. And the whole plot was unoriginal. If it wasn't for the stellar performance of all of the new Rebel (or Rebel-friendly) characters and the halfway-decent lines they were given the movie would have totally sucked.

18 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:

and Phasma has received so little characterization that she's barely a sketch so far, and seems completely superfluous to the story going forward.

I read (forgot where, but I think it was a reputable source) that Phasma wasn't supposed to appear until TLJ, but they liked Phasma's design so much they moved her into the movie.

5 minutes ago, Blackbird888 said:

I read (forgot where, but I think it was a reputable source) that Phasma wasn't supposed to appear until TLJ, but they liked Phasma's design so much they moved her into the movie.

I saw that too. I think that it was the lady who's now in charge who decided Phasma should be in TFA. Kathleen Kennedy?

Huh. I read that her scenes were mostly cut in editing, and that's why she's such a non-character. Wonder what's true. Could be both.

If they'd just made her the trooper who gets in the melee duel with Finn, she'd have felt a hell of a lot more significant.

12 hours ago, ShadoWarrior said:

What really needs to happen is giving us an explanation for why Leia does not appear to have been trained by Luke. We know that she is Force-sensitive because Yoda said so in ESB, and Luke confirms it when he speaks to his sister on Endor (the night before he surrenders himself to Vader).

She probably wasn't interested, really? I don't think becoming a Jedi suits Leia's character at all, I can see her being far too preoccupied with military and political efforts to put any time and effort into being a space wizard.

EDIT: just realised there's a whole page I missed and this has been addressed. Oh well!

13 hours ago, ShadoWarrior said:

Oh, you mean the obnoxious, arrogant, surly brat in AotC who is already well on the way to the Dark Side?

BTW, there was only one grandmaster: Yoda. All the rest, including Windu, were "mere" masters. And that scene in Palpatine's chamber was scripted for a destined result. It is very difficult to believe that the Jedi Order's best lightsaber wielder, along with 3 other High Council masters, wouldn't be able to defeat one Sith Lord. OTOH, that same Sith Lord did manage to defeat Yoda in single combat, and given Yoda's strength in the Force and centuries of knowledge, that says something about just how powerful that "old man" was, explaining how Sidious was able to win against 4:1 odds versus the Jedi Council masters.

"Correct his mistake"? Seriously, "c orrect his mistake "? There was no "mistake" when he murdered Jedi younglings in the Temple. Order 66 is not an excuse, and murdering hundreds ostensibly to save his wife (and kids) is no valid justification.

So, should he have get himself and his wife getting killed instead, while the very same soldiers which came with him in the temple would have killed the younglings anyway. Their fate was sealed. He did as much the right thing at that moment as Obi-Wan did when he tortured a prisoner for vital informations. Not killing the younglings in persons would not have made any difference. His mistake was not to take down Sidious when he had the chance.

And btw, you guys have ignored so far that Leia would be terrified from becoming another Vader on top of it. The Darkside is an temptation which becomes a lot less of a problem for a someone who does not know how to use the force. No temptation to just mindrape those idiotic senators into doing the right thing and given the political state of the republic in the new past-RotJ timeline, that temptation would have even bigger than it would have been in legends. ;-)

Oi gevalt!

I go to sleep and come back and see salt everywhere...

Leia wasn't much of a Jedi in Legends, too, IIRC. But anyways I think there's not much to go on, now that we know the title is meant to be plural.

16 hours ago, TheMOELANDER said:

Actually you're incorrect. Yes the translation back then was plural, but here is an important thing: If it was Return of the Jedi = Die Rückkehr des Jedi, it would mean a specific Jedi. But actually it was meant, that the Jedi as an organization/group were returning, as an idea. In such cases German takes use of the plural.

Couldn't that be applied to the new title too?


Anyway, it's all irrelevant now that the French, Spanish and Italian translations also show plural.

15 hours ago, ShadoWarrior said:

I'm not assuming anything. And the way she spoke to Luke, before Luke told her she was his sister, indicated quite clearly that she admired Luke's abilities.

Being trained in certain aspects of the Force would make her a better leader. She certainly could have made good use of Influence to make the New Republic leadership (or lack thereof) more willing to listen to her. And that's just one example.

So? I admire Navy SEALs abilities too, but I'm still not going to train to be one.

And being trained in certain aspects of the Force might make her a better leader, but it would also take her out out of the political game for a significant time, which she simply doesn't seem to think is worth it.

15 minutes ago, OddballE8 said:

Couldn't that be applied to the new title too?


Anyway, it's all irrelevant now that the French, Spanish and Italian translations also show plural.

No, german is really complicated in that regard. It's al in the articles: der, die, das, des, dessen, jener, jene, jenes, dieser, dieses, diese, meines, deines, seines.....

Die letzten Jedi could be translated back into: The remaining Jedi, which would make it also ambiguous in term of plural or singular. If you want that collective plural to count for Luke as a singular you'd have to translate it like this:

Der Letze der Jedi(-Ritter)

which would translate back to english as "the last of the Jedi".

Or, if Rey would be the last Jedi (after completing her training with Luke and he dies during the movie)

Die Letzte der Jedi(-Ritter)... in english the same: The last of the Jedi