What would you say if unique Astromechs are reduced by 2 points if you equip Integrated Astromech? Or if any Astromech was reduced by 2 points by equipping Integrated Astromech? Would that solve problems?

Hang on, you are suggesting a fix... for a fix...

I'm not sure that would be enough to fix the X-Wing. You'd need a fix for the fix for the X-Wing fix.

46 minutes ago, AwesomeJedi said:

What would you say if unique Astromechs are reduced by 2 points if you equip Integrated Astromech? Or if any Astromech was reduced by 2 points by equipping Integrated Astromech? Would that solve problems?

Major Juggler said a 1pt reduction would have been enough when I was released. A 2 point reduction wouldn't be out of line now.

I think it would just take a couple of good low cost (0-2 point) generic Astromechs to have an impact on the X-Wing. I was hopeful for R3 but that turned out to be crap.

Maybe a 0 point Astromech like this:

"After you perform an attack that does not hit, you may make an attack with a [Torpedo] secondary weapon against the same target. This attack treats "Attack (Target Lock):" as "Attack:". If this attack instructs you to spend a target lock you may ignore that requirement. You cannot perform another attack this round."

It gives X-Wings a reason to equip torpedoes and gives them a little bit extra punch if you decide to pay the points for a torpedo. If you don't it allows Integrated Astromech to be equipped for free.

X-wings have more problems going on than just their price. For instance, Dash Rendar will solo 4 of them regardless of their price.

Good astromechs are where it's at for X-wings, and the CCL is spitting out a bunch of great ones. Regardless of how powerful or under costed an astromech is it will never be as good as R2-D2, so I don't know why FFG is dragging their feet on releasing some good ones.

The X-wing fails because all-rounder ships always struggle to compete with specialists. By their nature, ships specialising in one area are only considered competitive if they stand a good chance of forcing the engagement on their terms. This is why low PS Tie Interceptors have never been a thing, their BR and Boost actions are far less worthwhile than on higher PS pilots. High PS Interceptor pilots can make use of them and so are flown, particularly if they are married to a good pilot ability.

The X-wing has been over-costed since day 1 and has gone downhill from there. Certain pilots are flown because their abilities outweigh the inefficiencies of the T65 (Biggs says "Hi" ). They have 2 green dice but only 5 hull which is mediocre, they have a single torpedo which means they cannot benefit from EMs and are unlikely to run Chips because they need the Modification slot for IA (or Autothrusters in the case of the T70).

As a jouster, they are worse for the points than a Tie Defender. They cannot make efficient use of ordnance. They cannot reposition (T70s have slight edge here). Their dial is not really great. They have no inbuilt action economy. The fluff has that X-wings are supposed to be good all-round starfighters. Unfortunately the, their way the game is structured, their lack of strengths makes them poor rather than well-rounded.

How 'bout this?

If it was 6 or lower, combined with the fact, that the cheaper one was for free - sure, I take that. Engine + autothrusters or + vertical sth (the barrel roll mod) for 4 points on a ship, which is already overcosted, doesn't sound that bad. But it is still not enough, because it would ONLY change T-65 into a T-70 (but still with worse dial and -1 shield...).

33 minutes ago, Jedu said:

If it was 6 or lower, combined with the fact, that the cheaper one was for free - sure, I take that. Engine + autothrusters or + vertical sth (the barrel roll mod) for 4 points on a ship, which is already overcosted, doesn't sound that bad. But it is still not enough, because it would ONLY change T-65 into a T-70 (but still with worse dial and -1 shield...).

I think Integrated Astro and Vectored Thrusters is pretty nice. Integrated and Guidance Chips could work. Edit: Also, the fact that the astromech is free makes a Big difference. Could run 4XA rather than 4XZ. Not a worldbeater but I'd run it.

Integrated and Autothrusters on a T-70 would be very nice. Maybe a touch too strong?

Astromechs have two major concernes, Biggs and Corran. I didn't want Biggs with a stealth device and integrated astromech. Corran is probably married to R2-D2 though.

If I made this card, I would also incorporate a new Y-wing that removes the turret and adds a crew and an E-wing mod with a negative point cost.

Integrated is perfectly fine. Brings options to t70 and brings t65 to life even remotely.

Problem is lack of interesting droids, and T65 itself.

That's the biggest problem with trying to "fix" ths T65. Fixing it and keep it a T65. A lot of the fixes proposed over the last two years turns the original X-wing into something else, like a T70 wannabe or some X/E hybrid.

I agree that at this point a reduction in cost isn't going to be enough but a new line of generic astromechs might breathe some new life into the Rebellion's warhorse.

Rogue squadron title.

Make it it so the poor X can actually joust and trade damage with a reasonable chance. Maybe 'if within range 1 of a other Rogue Squadron Pilot and within arc of an enemy ship assign Evade token to this ship and reroll one blank result when attacking.' Price it at one point or so. That way you can still add an astro with IA in that mod space, or add torps and chimps for a halfway decent alpha strike.

I don't see why they just don't errata the points cost of the ship itself. Instead of making new cards to fix the ship that might have unintended consequences. Like making another ship much better. Drop the rookies to 18 and evaluate all the other pilots on their abilities. Biggs probably stays where he is because he still sees a lot of flight time for his ability alone. The others could all stand to see their costs go down a point or two.

I'd love some massive reprint/rebalance of all of the pilots... just the pilots... sell a Rebel, an Imperial, and a Scum pack at whatever price lets FFG break even on them... don't reprint the ones that are fine. Give some of the PS 3-5 generics minor abilities that require good synergy... it'd be great for the game

1 hour ago, Lobokai said:

I'd love some massive reprint/rebalance of all of the pilots... just the pilots... sell a Rebel, an Imperial, and a Scum pack at whatever price lets FFG break even on them... don't reprint the ones that are fine. Give some of the PS 3-5 generics minor abilities that require good synergy... it'd be great for the game

Break even does not make good business sense and card packs are for collectible card games. A campaign pack with new cards on the other hand apparently does - the Armada Correllian Conflict for example - or a pack like Most Wanted.

2 hours ago, Clancampbell said:

I don't see why they just don't errata the points cost of the ship itself. Instead of making new cards to fix the ship that might have unintended consequences. Like making another ship much better. Drop the rookies to 18 and evaluate all the other pilots on their abilities. Biggs probably stays where he is because he still sees a lot of flight time for his ability alone. The others could all stand to see their costs go down a point or two.

We can't work with errata of that magnitude. Also a Rookie X-Wing at 18 points would then be the same cost as an Alpha Squadron TIE Interceptor so can of worms opened. Alternatively they could errata the X-Wing ship name to T-65 X-Wing at least that would mean they can bring out cards without them interacting with the T-70 (and its only one change to remember instead of having cost changes to individual cards). We could get a Rogue One X-Wing pack which would be an ideal opportunity to re-print the cards with T-65 on them and provide potential boosters for the T-65 X-Wing.

Microsoft broke even on most XBOX's, but felt that owning an affordable machine would gateway people to game purchases which they would profit from... You'd be surprised how often this tactic is used to great effect and, yes, business sense.

On 17/02/2017 at 7:56 AM, Astech said:

X-wings have more problems going on than just their price. For instance, Dash Rendar will solo 4 of them regardless of their price.

Yeah.... no. Dash will die, because I've done it before. Went 4/2 at regionals last year with triple T-65s.

sure, there aren't that many competitive builds for tournament play but it is possible to build good ones. I didn't fly Biggles either.

I think, like it or not, the franchise has moved on. Herr Mause doesn't want prequel film ships, they've said that openly. For the same reason I don't think we'll see anything more from the original trilogy, so unless something shiny for the old T-65 makes an appearance in Rebels I think we have to admit that what we've got is what we're going to get.

14 minutes ago, Estarriol said:

I think, like it or not, the franchise has moved on. Herr Mause doesn't want prequel film ships, they've said that openly. For the same reason I don't think we'll see anything more from the original trilogy, so unless something shiny for the old T-65 makes an appearance in Rebels I think we have to admit that what we've got is what we're going to get.

Except for that appearance in Rogue One

35 minutes ago, Estarriol said:

Yeah.... no. Dash will die, because I've done it before. Went 4/2 at regionals last year with triple T-65s.

Katarn Dash might be killed by a 4 T-65 list due to his slow speed, but a Kanan dash - especially with a HLC - will run rings around the sluggish X-wings. Three X-wings has a much better chance of killing him what with Wes, Wedge and so on - pilots higher PS than Dash. This doesn't even account for Dash's escort, who is typically Miranda or Corran, either of which could probably solo 2 X-wings. The T-65 is so behind the power curve it's not funny.

2 hours ago, Lobokai said:

Microsoft broke even on most XBOX's, but felt that owning an affordable machine would gateway people to game purchases which they would profit from... You'd be surprised how often this tactic is used to great effect and, yes, business sense.

PS3 was sold at a massive loss, took a year or so before they were breaking even. This is offset by the cut they get every time a game sells and selling a console at a loss increases the install base so more games are sold. So in this case I agree it makes perfect business sense. FFG selling card packs at break even (while very nice for us players) doesn't increase the user base and doesn't make them any money; it satisfies a proportion of their user base who will still play X-Wing without card packs and buy expansions they make money on. The only time FFG breaking even might make sense is on core sets as most people are likely to buy profitable expansions with the set or later on. The bargain price core sets are I very much suspect that the margin is small or at break even for this very reason.

Pretty sure core set = console

expansion pack = video game

as far as this analogy goes.

At at this point we are way too deep into things to just start repricing any pilot card, much less huge swaths of them. FAQing the occasional upgrade to add 'limited', 'small ship only' and 'add one to hull value' is not the same as suddenly FAQing that every X-wing costs one less squad point than before. You can't charge people for the actual fix if you do that!

Integrated Astromech is pretty good and it will give any 0 point Astromech a huge impact should FFG ever find one they like. There is a high chance that a hypthetical Rogue One pack has a 0 point Astromech. Shaving one point off Biggs isn't too big a deal, doing the same thing for the Rookie is. Still, the effect should probably be a minor benefit tied to allied ships being attacked so Biggs is only affected passively.

Okay, weird that we're fixated on my "I wish this would happen" comment, but sure, I'll respond one last time.

Reissued cards are a pipe dream. I have no hope FFG would do it to supplement an FAQ recost/rebalance.

But yes, they could/would make plenty off of selling reprints at cost. Easily. And anyone else in marketing can back me up here.

Certain merchandise sectors tend to attract completionists and easily invoke emotional investment, post purchase.

Case A) player purchases pack of reprinted cards: sees that new synergy makes buying a third TIE/Bomber, or using a bypassed upgrade more often, etc is now more viable and buys new expansions.

Case B) new player buys a pack of reprints for their limited collection (they've just bought for the current meta), but since they now own cards for these ships... They feel a draw to buy