The turn 0 question is quite simple, do you take 3 Asteroid tokens or 3 Debris Cloud tokens for your list?

You can't mix as that would be sub-optimal, you could take any size big or small but it has to be the same type of obstacle. So what do people take?

Well if you are like me you may have notices that more people take Asteroid tokens over Debris clouds. So the question is why are Asteroids better? Sure Debris clouds are not as punishing if you land on them as you don't lose your attack, and you feel really silly when you land on a token you placed but your opponent gets to place those tokens too. So in an attempt to understand and help me with the new turn 0 meta.

• Debris clouds have less of an impact . You wan't your obstacles to have the greatest effect on the table. Now sure both you and your opponent shares obstacles, but taking the weakest obstacles makes you dependent on what your opponent brings. Much like the Prisoners Dilemma, nash equilibrium is achieved by the choice which is best for you no longer what your opponent chooses even if it makes the situation harder for both players.
• Debris Clouds can be exploited . At first there was only one list that would take debris clouds, Super Dash. It was a simple choice of nash equilibrium. Your obstacles don't effect you but may affect your opponent, and if you faced the mirror well your obstacles wouldn't have effect him anyways so why handicap yourself? Now with upgrades like Collision Detector you can have the same advantage as super dash lists which makes debris clouds a niche obstacle. Only lists that are built to ignore them would take them. IF you don't build your list to ignore debris clouds but take them anyways, you run the risk of encountering a list that does. Back to the prisoners dilemma you have chosen not to snitch but got betrayed by your opponent and now you take the full loss while your opponent wins.
• There are just fewer debris Clouds than Asteroids . Now unless there was some meta that brought them or the two wave 5 expansions that have the "legal" debris clouds there are chances a player will not have access to those tokens. Where as on the other side everyone has a set of Asteroids as a Core set is a requirement. Also there are more asteroid tokens then there are legal debris cloud tokens. Sure in the power-meta game people will only chose the extremes for maximizing their influence on the terrain with those being the 3 smallest or the 3 largest. So having more than 6 tokens gives more of the illusion of viable choices rather than actual viable choices but the option is still there where with debris clouds it is the three larger ones or the three smaller ones, and it is often confusing between the 3rd largest from the 3rd smallest.

Agree, disagree, do you see nothing but debris clouds when you play or do you pretend that the don't exist just like Dash?

I think you're right.

I agree that debris in the current meta are not particularly useful against certain matchups. If your list isn't built to take advantage of them they may not be the best choice. However, I disagree that taking a mixed group is suboptimal. Sometimes you want to have the correct obstacle for the job no matter what you end up facing and what your opponent brings.

I prefer small debris as I often fly firesprays and/or YV's. Since they don't have turrets your moves are more limited to keep shios in your firing arc and by using debris you can land on them if necessary so you still have shots.

I usually bring the three smallest asteroids out of sheer laziness and ease of storage.

But I see a lot of debris clouds on game night, and have at times caught myself thinking that it's surprising how often my opponents use them. Laziness prevents me from trying to figure out why.

It's those players who bring one big debris, one tiny rock, and one medium rock, that I worry about.

It depends widely on the list. If I run a list that does not care about the debris, it is a plus for me, and a minus for most of my opponents.

Debris is mostly for lists that do not care about the stress, and as you say, Dash is an example of it

. I am currently trying out a list with Nien Numb, Poe with Pattern Analyzer and a U-wing with Hera. Such a list doesn't care much about debris, but it opens up for cheeky pushes through the debris where I can get range 1 with Numb, or do fancy stuff with Poe.

The latest Mynock podcast talks about this for more than an hour.

Would Debris be better against a Paratanni list? Either way you're relying on their poor flying (barring Tractor beam shenigans), but I wonder if unanticipated mindlink stress would be more damaging than a potential lost shot.

At the last tournament I went to, I was literally the ONLY person to run asteroids. And that was because my list was pretty vulnerable to stress.

They're out there.

I only use debris clouds, usually the small ones

I use debris, because my current list prefers it, a tlt y would rather just lose its action than lose an action and attack, my u-wing has collision detector and chopper, so debris has no effect unless I absolutely need an action, and Keyan loves debris as it's more alternatives to fuel his ability when Red moves aren't in my best interest

I use debris out of habit from when I used to not be very good at flying around obstacles. I should probably go back to asteroids.

I've always preferred asteroids. If you back yourself to be the better pilot, then you should bring the ones that punish your opponent the most. I'll generally only swap in one or more debris if there's a reason the squad wants it (ie. Kanan crew is involved, or the PalpShuttle wants to be able to shoot at some stage past the second round of combat).

For my list I use two big asteroids and 1 large debris. I put the debris in the corner I'm gonna most likely set up the shuttle, allowing the shuttle to essentially have 3 directions it can go since it has collision detector, but most players only see 2 directions giving me an advantage in the early game.

i see mostly rocks in my games, Personaly I've been going 1 small rock and 2 debris for my picks. Throws a few people off.

Real men fly with the biggest rocks. Especially if you're taking aces.

I like the two long debris clouds, but that's 'cause I'm always flying (non-super) Dash.

1 hour ago, NervousSam said:

Real men fly with the biggest rocks. Especially if you're taking aces.

Naw, REAL men bring three big rocks and plop down four Lambda shuttles.

Now I need to bring debris to my table.. This post made me realize I have literally used them once ever. Collision detector/trick shot SF's incoming. Probably with a collision detector upsilon. Sounds fun.

32 minutes ago, BleakSquadron said:

Now I need to bring debris to my table.. This post made me realize I have literally used them once ever. Collision detector/trick shot SF's incoming. Probably with a collision detector upsilon. Sounds fun.

Huh? You can't take an Upsylon when you've taken four Trick Shot / Collision Detector SFs...