So I downloaded Vassal and the Armada module, but messing around with it, it's extremely time-consuming and complicated to do everything. For the experienced users, do games in vassal usually take longer than physical games or once u get used it goes at the same pace?

1 minute ago, Visovics said:

So I downloaded Vassal and the Armada module, but messing around with it, it's extremely time-consuming and complicated to do everything. For the experienced users, do games in vassal usually take longer than physical games or once u get used it goes at the same pace?

They are actually faster with voice chat. (No clean up, easier to measure)

A little longer with typing, but when you are experienced you can get a game in under 2 hours if there is no Analysis Paralysis.

Also, the underlying benefits of Vassal are huge.

1. Play Armada with people from around the galaxy...okay the globe.

2. Get better because the play level is higher.

3. Understand Armada better because you get to play weird stuff that you can't afford right now.

1 minute ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

3. Understand Armada better because you get to play weird stuff that you can't afford right now.

I actually don't have anything, I simply know a LOT and experiment with mostly imperial in armada warlord, so this is the closest I actually have of playing.(I have absolutely no money, so can't even buy the core at the moment)

The biggest limfac I run into is not clunkiness or anything else related to the UI, but connectivity issues. My internet is pretty stable, and I get dropped connections and sync mismatches in Vassal much more than I would expect.

Even so though, you can generally get a game done in 2-2.5 hours if you have clear communication (use the "set" hotkey!) on turns, spending tokens, fixing dice, etc. I'm not a quick player in general, but it usually takes me about the same amount of time on Vassal or on the tabletop.

Where you really make your time back on Vassal is with setup and cleanup times, though. It usually takes me 30-45 minutes on both ends of a game to setup and cleanup, but Vassal is as quick as loading up your saved fleet and go.

It's not that hard to master, but it takes a few games before you reach decent speed.

The trick is to not worry about every little detail. Just play, like you would on the table, rather than overanalyze and measure too much.

Also voice chat certainly speed things up.

Visovics, I was watching a little bit of your game. There is a lovely button called "default setup values".

Its knowing tricks like this which make it easier. Best to play with someone who knows vassal and you will soon pick it up.

Most people on there are pretty willing to help a newcomer, assuming they have the time to play. Don't be afraid to message somebody and ask for a learning game (double click on their name, or right click > send message).

Someday I will work up the courage to actually delve into the world of Vassal. Force knows I could use the practice.

I'm torn. I'd love to play and get better. But the whole reason I got into this game, and X Wing, is to physically play with the models against live people. So, after fiddling with it back in the day and realizing it was a super steep learning curve, I never went any further.

I probably should ask for guidance and learn it already.

Vassal game me a hard time. But I have found Table Top Sim Armada mod to be very simple to use. Both are great and gives people the option to play Armada.

On 2/16/2017 at 1:38 PM, jpersons73 said:

Vassal game me a hard time. But I have found Table Top Sim Armada mod to be very simple to use. Both are great and gives people the option to play Armada.

Doesnt Table Top Sim cost $20 or so on Steam? Or is there a free version out there?

8 minutes ago, DakDaniels said:

Doesnt Table Top Sim cost $20 or so on Steam? Or is there a free version out there?

TTS is on Steam only AFAIK.

So as some of you know I gave a lot of crap to Vassal when I started.

So allow me to step in here and just lay out the obvious.

Star Wars Armada on Vassal is a faithful recreation. But Vassal itself is, for lack of a batter word, a s***tshow. And that leads to many of the complaints.

The number one issue has to do with the abstraction of simple physical concepts like flipping a token to computer commands. Green Knight and others have worked to make this a simple mechanical system and good on them, but the reality is that the number of steps involved in just checking and manipulating the maneuver tool is absurd. If you want to turn at all, you have to choose from two potential maneuver configurations (right and left), manipulate the notches for each segment, right-click or keyboard shortcut along your specific pathway, and then resolve any issues including ramming (which had to be done by undoing your movement).

Basically you need a PHD to learn the **** thing. And that's just for moving. Playing the full game is even worse.

I will stand by a common suggestion in this thread: use voice chat to vastly speed up the game and learn the system. It will knock whole hours off of every game when you know what to do already and shorten the learning period by days or even weeks.

Yeah Vassal (and TTS for that matter) are for the diehards or those who perhaps can't get a regular game and are prepared and can invest time.

It's a complex game, and the UI with its vast number of key combinations will frighten off most people.

Still, for those who persist, I can see how it does work, and it's got a great player base thanks largely to the great job done by Green Knight!

Ultimately, if one could get it to look like the TTS version, but have the reliability and functionality of Vassal (and it's player base), it would be amazing.

On 2/20/2017 at 0:34 AM, Green Knight said:

TTS is on Steam only AFAIK.

Yeah that's where I saw it.

I'll stick with Vassal. I'm already semi familiar with it there. Just need to find the time to sit down and play a game.

I find vassal very challenging with a typical 1080 screen, I think it needs a second monitor or higher resolution (or both)

16 minutes ago, OgRib said:

I find vassal very challenging with a typical 1080 screen, I think it needs a second monitor or higher resolution (or both)

I personally simply plug my laptop to a TV, resolution may be quite bad, but it's relatively easier to see and better if you really want the whole table on the screen

Vassal is a bit clumsy across all games for it. props to the guys who maintain the addons for it but honestly. add Tabletop Simulator to your steam wishlist and just wait for it to be $5 during steam sale.

I appreciate the vassal communities for all the games i play I really do but that program just infuriates me to no end.

Can't comment on TTS. But I use vassal quit a bit. I found actually using the armada mod extremely straight forward that simply required right clicking and looking for what I wanted. The speed at which a game is played increases dramatically as you become familiar with where the shortcuts are.

Playing against another person familiar with vassal I can play a game as fast if not faster than a physical game.

You do miss out on the fun casual aspect of in person table top gaming. But its so easy to just pop on vassal see who's on and play a game.

I'll also caveat that those that play vassal (excluding me of course) tend to be really good.

Vassal is also perfect for creating new builds that you want to test out before making the plunge of buying 6 transports.

1 hour ago, OgRib said:

I find vassal very challenging with a typical 1080 screen, I think it needs a second monitor or higher resolution (or both)

Two screen are preferanse preferable. Or a huge hi-res one.

44 minutes ago, PartyPotato said:

Can't comment on TTS. But I use vassal quit a bit. I found actually using the armada mod extremely straight forward that simply required right clicking and looking for what I wanted. The speed at which a game is played increases dramatically as you become familiar with where the shortcuts are.

Playing against another person familiar with vassal I can play a game as fast if not faster than a physical game.

You do miss out on the fun casual aspect of in person table top gaming. But its so easy to just pop on vassal see who's on and play a game.

I'll also caveat that those that play vassal (excluding me of course) tend to be really good.

Vassal is also perfect for creating new builds that you want to test out before making the plunge of buying 6 transports.

Pretty much sums it up.

Practice makes perfect.

I play one screen, no voice chat Vassal Armada.

Me and CNinj recently played a six turn thriller in under two hours. Its easily doable.

I may or may not have a phd.

@Ginkapo but you're a much better player anyway

1 minute ago, OgRib said:

@Ginkapo but you're a much better player anyway

Am I? Or is that a myth?

I am good at vassal when information is so readily available and interpretable, rather poor on a table. I have to build meta breaking fleets to give myself an edge at regionals to even do mediocre....