I think everyone is making assumptions that aren't necessarily true.

Assumption #1 - One needs a command dial for every minimum sized configuration owned. In other words, if the core box comes with 4 trays of Reanimates and they can be fielded as 2 trays, one would need two command dials. I don't think this is a reasonable assumption as I don't think we'll end up actually wanting to field multiple minimum sized units in this game. The way I understand the rules, multiple small units will be extremely susceptible to damage and removal. Larger units are just more durable, so it's reasonable to assume you'll more often be fielding larger configurations.

Assumption #2 - One needs the maximum number of trays for any given unit's largest configuration. Again, I think this is untrue. In practice, you'll be bulking units out with the command tray or a Siege Golem, etc. I doubt we'll see too many games where a legitimate block of 48 Reanimate models (12 trays x 4 per tray) is fielded. It seems that they'd be really easy to flank.

Also, in terms of dollar per model... this is a bad comparison. It's more reasonable to look at dollar per tray. Not all models are created equal. Cavalry take up as much space as 2 Infantry models. Heroes and "Monsters" take up as much space as 4 Infantry models. Trays are the universal comparison point. The core box comes with 16 trays of models for $100. That's $6.25 per tray. The Cav and Reanimate expansions are $25 for 2 trays, or $12.50 per tray. The Command expansions are a flat $25 for 1 tray.

So far, we see that...

• Unit Expansion are 2x as expensive per tray when compared to the core box. The upside is that you get SOME new cards/abilities that aren't included in the core box.
• Command Expansions are 4x as expensive per tray when compared to the core box. The upside is that you get LOTS of new cards/abilities that aren't included in the core box AND new poses/sculpts for your unit.

So, what should you buy? If you're looking to field a full size army while minimizing dollar expense, stick with core sets. If you're willing to spend more money to get a more flexible army with a variety of options, look into the expansions.

My intention is to go with a friend, but two core sets and swap out the models. That will leave me with having spent $100 and getting two of all the Waiqar trays. Then, based on my experience playing the game, I'm likely to buy the Command expansion. It really depends on how the game works and how I like the units. If I just love the Archers, I'll buy an Archers expansion. If I hate them, I won't. In these sorts of table top war games, it's not necessarily common to own EVERYTHING an army has to offer. Hobbyists often buy one of everything to assemble and paint, but the hardcore players tend to just buy what they're intending to actively use.

If I understand the unit scoring system correctly, if you have an intact rank in a formation at the end of the game you get those points added to your score? So if you have a 1-rank model and it gets any wounds, you lose all of those points. I think we will see small ranks as specialist forces, like support archers/cavalry, lone monsters (RG/CL) or speedbumps where we are not expecting to get the points back when we make the list.

I think a lot of forces are going to see upgrades to tier II-III for the bonuses and to make them a bit more survivable. Otherwise a few well-aimed pot shots and even if you are successful with your swarm of tier Is, you don't get any points back and could lose the mission on objectives.

28 minutes ago, drkpnthr said:

If I understand the unit scoring system correctly, if you have an intact rank in a formation at the end of the game you get those points added to your score? So if you have a 1-rank model and it gets any wounds, you lose all of those points. I think we will see small ranks as specialist forces, like support archers/cavalry, lone monsters (RG/CL) or speedbumps where we are not expecting to get the points back when we make the list.

I think a lot of forces are going to see upgrades to tier II-III for the bonuses and to make them a bit more survivable. Otherwise a few well-aimed pot shots and even if you are successful with your swarm of tier Is, you don't get any points back and could lose the mission on objectives.

Pretty much, this. Playing to the mission wins you the game. Multiple tier I units rarely plays to the mission.

On 2/16/2017 at 3:40 PM, drkpnthr said:

Midwest, my local store chains just don't have a budget devoted to bringing in a lot of events, and GW demands so many feet of retail space be devoted to their products, and they require that the store purchase so many dollars of product each month in order to host events. The stores have focused completely on GW for official events because that, and they say they can't divert sales away from GW with competing products. Before I went by to ask about RW, I don't think I had been there in over 6 months (and then just to buy some more dice to give away to new players joining our RPG games). Without any official events, there is just the casual scene which we organized outside of the stores. We have about 10-20 meet about 1-2 times a month at different hosts houses to play IA, XWing, and Armada in garages and dining rooms, and we plan to add Runewars competitions in too. I spent several months going to the local stores off and on to try to drum up enough people to get them to start hosting FFG games, and they had no problem with us using the space to run casual games, but most tournament people wanted the prizes and ladder climbing of an official tournament, and focused their money on the GW products being hosted. Many of the people in my area who run FFG tournaments just travel 45 mins to another city. I have friends who travel over an hour to play in Infinity and Warmahordes tournaments.

sorry to revive this but i also live in the midwest (south chicagoland) and i have the same problem. maybe if you live somewhere nearish we could work out some games.

4 hours ago, Klaxas said:

sorry to revive this but i also live in the midwest (south chicagoland) and i have the same problem. maybe if you live somewhere nearish we could work out some games.

That makes me sad...especially if you have a 10-20 person community interested in these games. They can't be playing gw organized play every night and I doubt 10-20 new players picking up ffg products would hurt their gw crowd or sales...you should just show up one day with your group and be like we want to buy stuff and play here do you really not want or business? I understand the restrictions gw puts on stores but most stores I've been to have still been able to stock other products or special order then if they aren't usual stock...is my area just soiled because a major wholesaler is located in my town? If that's the case then I will stop being so confused...

1 hour ago, jek said:

That makes me sad...especially if you have a 10-20 person community interested in these games. They can't be playing gw organized play every night and I doubt 10-20 new players picking up ffg products would hurt their gw crowd or sales...you should just show up one day with your group and be like we want to buy stuff and play here do you really not want or business? I understand the restrictions gw puts on stores but most stores I've been to have still been able to stock other products or special order then if they aren't usual stock...is my area just soiled because a major wholesaler is located in my town? If that's the case then I will stop being so confused...

The saddest side of the story is that if you want to make your business run, you nearly have to sell GW stuffs. Which means that anywhere in the world you go, you'll find a GW store or a retailer packed with gw stuffs to sell. I'm off from GW after having seen what has happened with AoS and found out that it didn't please me at all. W40K is nice but somehow... well always the same ? Then, when you see a game like Runewars showing up and trying to build its own nest on the riviera, I'm like : ok let's see what does exist outside WFB and LoTr I've never paid much attention to Warmachine and hordes because I found it quite expansive... but at least not more than GW.

I'm not bashing GW for what they do, because I love their Imperial army range which is my favorite army in all their range (along with the old Bretony).

They have space and we've tried a time or two, but honestly we are much happier cramming everyone into someone's basement or garage than spend time at a store that smells of smoke and cat pee, especially if they don't stock what we want to play. We are starting up a local Eurogame event every month for the same reason.

13 hours ago, drkpnthr said:

They have space and we've tried a time or two, but honestly we are much happier cramming everyone into someone's basement or garage than spend time at a store that smells of smoke and cat pee, especially if they don't stock what we want to play. We are starting up a local Eurogame event every month for the same reason.

Jesus... ONE store, and it reeks of smoke and cat pee?

*counts his blessings*

17 hours ago, drkpnthr said:

They have space and we've tried a time or two, but honestly we are much happier cramming everyone into someone's basement or garage than spend time at a store that smells of smoke and cat pee, especially if they don't stock what we want to play. We are starting up a local Eurogame event every month for the same reason.

What kind of store is it ? I mean stinky stores are not that rare but still. Never put a foot in such a shop... the last time I went to a place smelling both smoke and pee was back when I was at university...in a student association room...too much for me...thanks god I was drunk when I realized it was a mess...

On 2/26/2017 at 0:25 AM, drkpnthr said:

They have space and we've tried a time or two, but honestly we are much happier cramming everyone into someone's basement or garage than spend time at a store that smells of smoke and cat pee, especially if they don't stock what we want to play. We are starting up a local Eurogame event every month for the same reason.

That sounds like a certain level of gamer hell...

1 hour ago, jek said:

That sounds like a certain level of gamer hell...

or some kind of proving grounds...

Kinda like the gathering, except with dice and no decapitations and instead of the knowledge of the universe you get...victory points?