Finn timing

By Wibs, in X-Wing Rules Questions

It just hit me and confused.. Can the opponent modify Finn result or not?

Chart says for attack

3. “Modify Attack Dice” step • These abilities include adding, changing, and rerolling dice results. Dice can be modified multiple times, but each die can be rerolled only once.

i. Defender resolves abilities that modify attack dice

ii. Attacker resolves abilities that modify attack dice

So I roll the attack dice with, say, Rey get Hit/Focus/Blank, then the defender modifies them and only then I add the Finn result?

Is it the same when Defending? I roll, the dice get modified by the attacker and only then I add the Finn blank?

Actually, do similar "add result" work the same way? Or am I missing something?

Edited by Wibs

The person who rolled the dice modifies them last.

So Finn is always added after the opponent has had their chance to modify dice.

Most 'add result' options (indeed, virtually all dice mods) work that way, with the notable exceptions of C-3PO and Heavy Laser Cannon.

56 minutes ago, Wibs said:

It just hit me and confused.. Can the opponent modify Finn result or not?

Chart says for attack

3. “Modify Attack Dice” step • These abilities include adding, changing, and rerolling dice results. Dice can be modified multiple times, but each die can be rerolled only once.

i. Defender resolves abilities that modify attack dice

ii. Attacker resolves abilities that modify attack dice

So I roll the attack dice with, say, Rey get Hit/Focus/Blank, then the defender modifies them and only then I add the Finn result?

Is it the same when Defending? I roll, the dice get modified by the attacker and only then I add the Finn blank?

Actually, do similar "add result" work the same way? Or am I missing something?

He can...but why ? :D

2 minutes ago, Vitalis said:

He can...but why ? :D

No, he can't.

2. Roll Attack Dice: The attacker rolls a
number of attack dice equal to its primary
weapon value; if it is attacking with a secondary
weapon, it rolls attack dice equal to the attack
value on that weapon’s Upgrade card instead.
• The attacker resolves any card abilities that allow
him to roll additional or fewer attack dice.
• If attacking at Range 1 with its primary weapon,
the attacker rolls one additional attack die.
• All additions or subtractions to the number of
attack dice being rolled occur before the player
rolls the attack dice.
3. Modify Attack Dice: The defender can
resolve any card abilities that allow him to modify
the attack dice. Then the attacker can modify his
attack dice in one or more of the following ways
as many times as possible:
• Focus: The attacker can spend a focus token to
change all of his ? results to ? results.
• Target Lock: The attacker can spend a target
lock he has on the defender to reroll any number
of his attack dice.
• Card Ability: The attacker can resolve a card
ability that modifies attack dice and that he has
not already resolved during this attack.

This can be confusing at first because there is a step in the rolling attack dice step #2 that seems to suggest that all abilities relating to rolling extra attack dice need to be resolved before rolling. However, Finn's ability is not an attack ability, it's a modification ability. Therefore, the sequence goes as listed in step 3) Modification:

Roll attack dice. Step#2

Opponent resolves any abilities to modify your attack roll which actually happens before you do any of your own modifications.

Attacker now resolves abilities that allow modification. Use Finn to add a blank result, then use Rey to reroll blank dice.

In defending:

Player rolls defense dice. Attack dice have already been rolled AND modified.

Attacker modifies defense dice.

Defender now modifies own dice. Use Finn to add blank result. Use Rey to reroll blanks.

Edited by iamzoner

This is most likely not a fixed scenario (give or take future cards being released) as you can already Modify Defence dice as an attacker later than the defender does:

In defending:
Player rolls defense dice.
Attacker modifies defense dice.
Defender now modifies own dice. Use Finn to add blank result. Use Rey to reroll blanks.

Then CrackShot:

“When attacking a ship inside your firing arc, at the
start of the ‘Compare Results’ step, you may discard
this card to cancel 1 of the defender’s [evade] results.”

1 hour ago, ThisIsDavin said:

This is most likely not a fixed scenario (give or take future cards being released) as you can already Modify Defence dice as an attacker later than the defender does:

In defending:
Player rolls defense dice.
Attacker modifies defense dice.
Defender now modifies own dice. Use Finn to add blank result. Use Rey to reroll blanks.

Then CrackShot:

“When attacking a ship inside your firing arc, at the
start of the ‘Compare Results’ step, you may discard
this card to cancel 1 of the defender’s [evade] results.”

Technically, that's not a modification. It's a cancellation and cancellations are not modifications. An attacker cannot modify Finn's blank result, but after the defender has finished any modifications to it, he can use Crack Shot and cancel that result ( whatever it ended up being ).

10 hours ago, ThisIsDavin said:

This is most likely not a fixed scenario (give or take future cards being released) as you can already Modify Defence dice as an attacker later than the defender does:

In defending:
Player rolls defense dice.
Attacker modifies defense dice.
Defender now modifies own dice. Use Finn to add blank result. Use Rey to reroll blanks.

Then CrackShot:

“When attacking a ship inside your firing arc, at the
start of the ‘Compare Results’ step, you may discard
this card to cancel 1 of the defender’s [evade] results.”

As @Parravon pointed out, cancellation is not a kind of modification. We used to have a rule saying that all result-cancellation effects had to happen in Compare Results*, but that got left out of the new Rules Reference. So now every time they release a new card that can cancel results we have to ask. So far, they've all be happening in Compare Results.

*: With the specific exception of Accuracy Corrector, because it wouldn't work as intended unless its cancellation happened during Attacker Modifies Attack Dice.