4 minutes ago, ellhaynes said:

So why on earth did you raise it then?!? I'm really quite confused now.

Because we all like to be consistent and all have ticks. Some people shuffle cards a billion times while thinking. I wanted to know if it's cheating regardless of the results. I've still yet to see anything concrete on how you should roll. To me, though I haven't tried it, think it may bring another level of strategy which may be fun. But before I invest time in trying, why not see how the community views it.

Good lord, what is going on in this thread? If you guys are so adamant that it's cheating, prove it; show him the rules and move on. No reason to be anything other than academic about it.

If I had the time, energy, or motivation I'd dig out one of the old threads on the X-Wing forum. We're not exactly treading new ground here.

9 minutes ago, Lusiphur05 said:

When you play craps at a casino, you are allowed to set the facing of the dice before you toss them. However, when you toss them you have to throw them across the very large table and they tell you that you need to have them bounce off the wall of the other side of the table if you manage to fail to do so after a couple rolls.

When playing destiny I highly doubt you are playing on a surface that large with something to bounce them off off, and there is no way anyone wouldn't call you on rolling that way as trying to cheat by trying to flip the dice a certain way rather than rolling them.

It's a shame people don't read before responding. I said clearly, this is rolling the die. It is rolling just as usual. The only difference is you start the die from the same point. And FYI there is no chance someone would notice this. It's far to easy to do in a single motion.

A picture tells 1,000 words.

2 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

Good lord, what is going on in this thread? If you guys are so adamant that it's cheating, prove it; show him the rules and move on. No reason to be anything other than academic about it.

If I had the time, energy, or motivation I'd dig out one of the old threads on the X-Wing forum. We're not exactly treading new ground here.

Thank you fine sir, I have said this numerous times. Why is it cheating? So far we have nothing except people claiming that someone's intentions are not pure thus it is cheating which is hogwash.

2 minutes ago, Amanal said:

A picture tells 1,000 words.

Those look like can cozies, are they fabric?

Yep, and the neoprene is gentle enough on the dice.

We read fine, when you talk about a strategy to rolling to prevent it from landing on a specific side, there is no other way to read that action as rolling naturally. You can't remove the randomness from something without eliminating the random part which would be were the cheating claims come in.

In all honesty I would have to see how the dice rolls before I would call it out. If it looks more like a flip with you choosing the same side to start as up, it will look shady. If the dice truly rolled across the table and looked to do several bounces, I probably wouldn't mind.

Shifting course slightly: how would you guys feel about FFG plugging Destiny into the SW dice app?

5 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

Shifting course slightly: how would you guys feel about FFG plugging Destiny into the SW dice app?

Never gonna happen cause they won't replace dice but hand cards out like candy. I think they'd have to charge to get the control they want and no one is gonna do that. Outside that I love the idea, it would be **** for Ashes ?

I just really hate rolling dice because I'm super bad at it; it would take me a whole other lifetime to deviate back to the mean. The dice app has spared me some frustration with X-Wing in the past, even though I know it's all in my head.

I'll get back to you about Ashes at some point, I'm still mulling over a response. Suffice it to say, I think combat is a little more dynamic than you're giving it credit for, but I'm glad there's interest at home.

I prefer to roll the dice, I wouldn't use an app. I love holding the real thing in my hand.

4 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

I just really hate rolling dice because I'm super bad at it; it would take me a whole other lifetime to deviate back to the mean. The dice app has spared me some frustration with X-Wing in the past, even though I know it's all in my head.

I'll get back to you about Ashes at some point, I'm still mulling over a response. Suffice it to say, I think combat is a little more dynamic than you're giving it credit for, but I'm glad there's interest at home.

Could be with combat I am looking at it theoretically at this point still. I like the choice to attack back or not, very different from any other game. Look forward to reading your thoughts.

Just now, Ywingscum said:

I prefer to roll the dice, I wouldn't use an app. I love holding the real thing in my hand.

Would you be okay with an opponent using it, if it was the official app?

So let me get this straight, DarthBlade.

Are you claiming that your little pre-roll ritual of orienting the die to a particular side isn't cheating because it doesn't affect the outcome?

Or are you claiming that it can help "avoid blanks?"

Because if it's the latter, it's DEFINITELY CHEATING and I don't see how anyone could possibly think otherwise.

If I'm mistaken, and what you are proposing really is essentially the same as blowing on the dice, such that the stochastic process of the die roll remains unchanged, why even bother making the post? Are you asking the community "what little pre-roll quirks do you have?" If so, I would recommend that you describe it as such and avoid calling it "strategy."

Rule of thumb: if you have to ask "Would you guys consider that cheating?" the answer is yes. Yes it is cheating. That covers 99% of all these types of questions. You know there is a question because your conscience is telling you it feels wrong. It feels wrong because it is. You know this before you asked the question.

Is holding dice a special way before rolling them cheating? No, not in and of itself, although I would expect if your opponent noticed it he would be highly suspicious. I would be. Many of the ways you can influence a dice roll start with that.

Is holding the dice and using some sort of special "technique" to always "roll" what you want cheating? Yes, no question. The whole point in having dice is to provide a random element in the game you have to contend with and play around. If you are trying to circumvent or somehow control the dice outside of what the rules allow, you are cheating. That is the definition.

1. 2 .

   avoid (something undesirable) by luck or skill.

   "she cheated death in a spectacular crash"

Also, it is offensive that you tried to paint "being competitive" as trying to do such things. No, that is not being competitive. Being competitive is learning the mechanics of a game and acting within the rules to win more than you lose. It is explicitly NOT cheating.

I have known many "casual" people to cheat and many many more competitive people who wouldn't be able to live with themselves if they won knowing they cheated their opponent. cheating has nothing to do with a person being casual or competitive.

2 minutes ago, ketemycos said:

So let me get this straight, DarthBlade.

Are you claiming that your little pre-roll ritual of orienting the die to a particular side isn't cheating because it doesn't affect the outcome?

Or are you claiming that it can help "avoid blanks?"

Because if it's the latter, it's DEFINITELY CHEATING and I don't see how anyone could possibly think otherwise.

If I'm mistaken, and what you are proposing really is essentially the same as blowing on the dice, such that the stochastic process of the die roll remains unchanged, why even bother making the post? Are you asking the community "what little pre-roll quirks do you have?" If so, I would recommend that you describe it as such and avoid calling it "strategy."

What's the difference between a quirk and a strategy if someone genuinely believes that blowing on a die will affect its outcome? Can you call the thought judges over to have that person DQd?

C'mon guys, I'm surprised that we're on page 3 of this and nobody can be bothered to quote the rule book already.

10 minutes ago, DarthBlade said:

It's a shame people don't read before responding. I said clearly, this is rolling the die. It is rolling just as usual. The only difference is you start the die from the same point. And FYI there is no chance someone would notice this. It's far to easy to do in a single motion.

You say, and I quote, "It is rolling just as usual." This is a false statement. Rolling as usual doesn't involve setting the die in your hand to a specific facing before throwing it. Instead of rolling as usual, you are talking about adding a step with the intention of creating a non-randomized roll.

It is commonly understood that taking any mechanical action designed to modify the results of a die roll and create a non-randomized roll is cheating. If you get caught doing so in a place like Las Vegas, your best outcome is that you'll be ejected after forfeiting any winnings.

You asked for an opinion and got one. Most communities consider any "dice rolling strategy" intended to impact dice results to be an attempt at cheating. Even if there is no measurable outcome, it's still an ATTEMPT at cheating. Anyone who attempts to cheat, successful or not, should rightfully be excluded from gaming. Cheaters are toxic to a healthy community.

3 minutes ago, Hida77 said:

Rule of thumb: if you have to ask "Would you guys consider that cheating?" the answer is yes. Yes it is cheating. That covers 99% of all these types of questions. You know there is a question because your conscience is telling you it feels wrong. It feels wrong because it is. You know this before you asked the question.

Is holding dice a special way before rolling them cheating? No, not in and of itself, although I would expect if your opponent noticed it he would be highly suspicious. I would be. Many of the ways you can influence a dice roll start with that.

Is holding the dice and using some sort of special "technique" to always "roll" what you want cheating? Yes, no question. The whole point in having dice is to provide a random element in the game you have to contend with and play around. If you are trying to circumvent or somehow control the dice outside of what the rules allow, you are cheating. That is the definition.

cheat

CHēt /

verb

gerund or present participle: cheating

1. 1 .

   act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination.

1. 2 .

   avoid (something undesirable) by luck or skill.

   "she cheated death in a spectacular crash"

Also, it is offensive that you tried to paint "being competitive" as trying to do such things. No, that is not being competitive. Being competitive is learning the mechanics of a game and acting within the rules to win more than you lose. It is explicitly NOT cheating.

I have known many "casual" people to cheat and many many more competitive people who wouldn't be able to live with themselves if they won knowing they cheated their opponent. cheating has nothing to do with a person being casual or competitive.

To be fair, some people do like to paint competitive players with that pejorative 'WAAC' brush. I think cheating or "strategic rolling" would technically fall under 'all costs.'

1 minute ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

What's the difference between a quirk and a strategy if someone genuinely believes that blowing on a die will affect its outcome? Can you call the thought judges over to have that person DQd?

C'mon guys, I'm surprised that we're on page 3 of this and nobody can be bothered to quote the rule book already.

Intent is the difference. That is up to the judge to decide.

Just now, WonderWAAAGH said:

To be fair, some people do like to paint competitive players with that pejorative 'WAAC' brush. I think cheating or "strategic rolling" would technically fall under 'all costs.'

I agree, but being competitive and being a WAAC player are not the same, no matter how much people like to try and group them. This is a perfect example of that.

Just now, Hida77 said:

Intent is the difference. That is up to the judge to decide.

Yes! It's up to the judge! There's a document for that, I've been waiting for someone to mention it...

1 minute ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

Yes! It's up to the judge! There's a document for that, I've been waiting for someone to mention it...

High five!

I have judged events though, and in my opinion if this question arose, I would be very skeptical if he used the word "strategy" in his explanation of why he did it. That is subjective and I would want to watch the player in question to decide for myself if he was just OCD/superstitious about it or acting to influence the outcome of course.

I will say that his description in this thread would definitely make me think it was the latter though. And the marshal/judge has a lot of power to do what he feels best in that situation. I would probably at least issue a warning to stop. If it was obviously malicious enough, then obviously more.

Well to be fair, outside mind reading, intent is almost impossible to prove. In a situation like this I think prevention is a good measure. Does it hurt anyone to roll your way, not really, does it hurt you to roll more formally? Again the answer is no. If someone can cheat this way is it not better to just disallow it and let judges focus on things that matter like oh I don't know game play mechanics? ?

38 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

Shifting course slightly: how would you guys feel about FFG plugging Destiny into the SW dice app?

I wouldn't mind something like this, but I think they would offer as an optional thing. Like you must own the physical die it has a code or something to redeem in the app. This would only be allowed in a super casual environment though. I have buddies that won't even let me use the app in IA or RPG games.