" UNSPORTING CONDUCT

2 minutes ago, Hawkman2000 said:

You lost me at boysenberry. I mean what is a boysenberry anyway...?

Wait, does not asking the question make it dumb or was it dumb in the first place? What order in the queue does the dumb question need to be asked for it to not be dumb? See I have a replacement effect that makes all my questions not dumb, even ones in my deck or in my head that I didn't ask yet. This sounds like a FFG rule or something.

It's a California thing. Come join us, we're friendly and the weather is nice.

6 minutes ago, anthonybarnstable said:

" UNSPORTING CONDUCT

Players are expected to behave in a mature and considerate manner and to play within the rules and not abuse them. This prohibits intentionally stalling a game for time, placing components with excessive force, inappropriate behavior, treating an opponent with a lack of courtesy or respect, cheating, etc. Collusion among players to manipulate scoring is expressly forbidden.

The organizer, at his or her sole discretion, may remove players from the tournament for unsporting conduct. "

-Star Wars Destiny Tournament Regulations, Page 3

There. Someone quotes the rules on the matter. It is unquestionably cheating and abuse of the rules to not randomly generate a number (die face) using a random number generator (die) when instructed to do so (roll).

Can a player or judge "prove" an intent to cheat, beyond any shadow of a doubt? No. Do they have to? No, this isn't a court of law trying to convict someone of murder, this is a tournament for a game. They don't need to set as high of standards to demonstrate guilt, they can set them as low as "because the judge thinks so" and that is good enough.

Fair enough. I appreciate your research. So if my friends disagree as long as it's at my house it's my rules and at their house their rules. It's settled people. Judges are officially the game makers/enforcers. Last part I couldn't resist saying as a troll.

38 minutes ago, DarthBlade said:

Bingo. Thus the reason for my post. I don't do this but some friends have thought about it. Who am I to tell them no. I have no basis as the previous posters have had none as well.

No, this is still ridiculous.

The RRG makes a few references to the deck being "shuffled." The dictionary.com definition of "shuffle" includes:

Quote

to mix (cards in a pack) so as to change the relative positions

Nowhere in that definition, nor the core rules sheet, nor the tournament regulations, nor in the RRG does it say that shuffling must or even SHOULD be done with the intent of randomizing the cards! Therefore as long as I shuffle "thoroughly" as stated in the tournament regs, I can do that in a way where I'm deliberately stacking my deck and be in the clear! It's not cheating, it's strategy!

Come on, now.

If it was so needlessly simple maybe other games wouldn't have explicit definitions for these things.

"701.18. Shuffle

• 701.18a To shuffle a library or a face-down pile of cards, randomize the cards within it so that no player knows their order."

That's how you write a rule.

These dice are big, bulky, heavy and just don't roll much. As a result, manipulating them like this is possible. If you tried this in Vegas you probably end up in jail.

1 minute ago, Mep said:

These dice are big, bulky, heavy and just don't roll much. As a result, manipulating them like this is possible. If you tried this in Vegas you probably end up in jail.

Lol

5 minutes ago, Mep said:

These dice are big, bulky, heavy and just don't roll much. As a result, manipulating them like this is possible. If you tried this in Vegas you probably end up in jail.

Mep! I missed you!

And now that I think about it, couldn't you have picked a different name? I'm getting awfully tired of fighting my autocorrect; you are simply too thought provoking to be a Mel.

9 minutes ago, DarthBlade said:

Lol

It's a felony in Nevada and laughing is the last thing you'd be doing if you did this.

Just now, Mep said:

It's a felony in Nevada and laughing is the last thing you'd be doing if you did this.

You must be late to the party. It was established that this was a subtle impossible to detect roll. If your telling me you can't pick up a die and roll it in Nevada even though your gently moving it one space over in your hand before I roll your crazy. Anyways, thanks for the laugh

As with all things, they have to catch you and the house dice aren't so easy to manipulate. The point I was making this is cheating.

1 minute ago, Mep said:

As with all things, they have to catch you and the house dice aren't so easy to manipulate. The point I was making this is cheating.

Already handled. It's the judges decision. We established that.

Of course it is.

"And then everyone became good friends, shared a pot of Pooh's honey, and held hands while they skipped off together beneath the dusky twilit canopy of the Hundred Acre Wood. The end."

I hardly call putting the dice on the same side cheating, as long as the dice is rolled properly

http://ourpastimes.com/tricks-rolling-dice-6106223.html

Here ya go!

by the way, you should never do any of these things, they are absolutely cheating. I just thought it was funny that I found this on a google search for "how do I roll dice?"

Maybe I'm word but I don't like it when dice tumble. In general I like to roll out of a dice cup and into a tray, when either or both of those are possible. With Destiny, I toss the dice pool back and forth into each hand a few times and then spread hands open so dice drop, or after tossing, I dump them into a cup and shake before inverting it. With most games I'd lay the dice cup upside down so dice don't tumble about, but Destiny dice are huge and they tend to stack with that method.

When I started playing D&D I learned I hate it when dice tumble a great distance. I like them to bounce in place and turn once or twice more.

On 2/15/2017 at 3:52 PM, DarthBlade said:

Fair enough. I appreciate your research. So if my friends disagree as long as it's at my house it's my rules and at their house their rules. It's settled people. Judges are officially the game makers/enforcers. Last part I couldn't resist saying as a troll.

I wound say that unless someone can prove their point in a fan or the rules themselves thend your take on it would work well.

I think at the end of the day the question is regarding interpretation.

The rules don’t explicitly say that the dice roll must be done in such a way to provide a randomized result, the problem being that the function of a die is to provide a random result (Pretty much every website that explains what a dice is says its for providing a random result).

If you're not trying to get a random result, as with the way your friends are "rolling" their die with the intention of it not landing on a particular side or more likely on other sides, your kind of defeating the purpose of rolling the die in the first place.

You may as well just pick them up and put them on the faces you want them to be.

This is simply my interpretation of things and how you play with your friends on your kitchen table is entirely up to you. It would however be sad if that actually have to clarify in the FAQ that rolling the die must be done in a randomized fashion.

Also for a little more perspective, the rules also say that you must "shuffle your deck thoroughly" with no mention of the deck being required to be randomized, there are many ways to shuffle something without it being randomized.

I think the issue is the OP is having a bit of a mental disconnect:

He has said his friends still roll the dice in such a way that he considers the roll random. If the roll is random, they have no control over the result. The roll is fair and no one has any issues with it. What they are doing is merely superstition and no big deal, there is no strategy in their actions just like there is no strategy in wearing your lucky socks to a tournament.

He he has also said there is strategy in how to roll the dice. If there is strategy, that means the players are taking efforts to accomplish a goal. If they are accomplishing a goal in regards to their rolling, the result is not random. The roll is not fair and that's where everyone else's problem comes in.

If the roll is random, there is no strategy. If there is strategy, the roll is not random. Yet somehow, the OP claims the roll is random with strategy, which is completely impossible. You have to pick one and stick with your story.

On 2/15/2017 at 0:43 PM, CBowser said:

I would probably call that cheating. If I saw my opponent doing something to adjust the roll of the dice in his favor, I'd ask him kindly to stop.

Yup. If you're studying the die or positioning it judiciously in any way before rolling

DATS CHEATING SON