My two cents on this game and how to fix it right now. No changes to cards. Changes to rules

1) Whenever you move and overlap or bump another ship, you cannot gain any actions yourself or from friendly ships. Period. No Manaroo passing, no special cards that allow. No Evade for Defenders. No Mindlink. Notice you still get them but you have to Fly Better!!!

1) Whenever you move and overlap or bump another ship, you cannot gain any actions from friendly ships. Period. No Manaroo passing, no special cards that allow. No Mindlink. Notice you still get them but you have to Fly Better!!!

2) Whenever you roll 4 or more attack dice with a Primary Weapon, all crits are turned to hits. Use the same rule as heavy laser cannon, so target locked re-rolls can be crits. However, you may choose to roll less than 4 dice for any PW attack. Keeps those 4 attack primary ships good, but not 3 crits and 2 hits good at range 1, unless you get really lucky

3) Whenever you have 5 or more stress, all white maneuvers become red. Tycho suffers, but not that much.

IMO - This makes the game more about maneuvering and flying better (What the developers want for the game) and less about throw dice or take free actions.

No cards are changed, just a few simple Overall Game Rules and the game goes along way to being balanced again. Swarms would make a comeback also

Just no to number 2... you have just nerfed the new Kylo pilot out of use. Don't know how many times I had to use its 4 dice primary at Chicago regionals to make his ability work. Make that a rule and really there is no reason to run him Pilot. Actually you would be more efficient to just run the other shuttle all together and get stronger aces.

Really they just need the meta to shift on a lot of things and then more threads of whining can start up. Find new ways to be competitive.

1. No. Stupid. Kills too many cards. Cards are sometimes designed to work on bumps (like X7) - that that not...dont work on bumps.

2. Interesting but why? Range 1 is supposed to be reward for good flying.

3.Maybe not in this form, but yes upper limit of stresses is good idea. I would say: if you got 5 or more you cannot perform any actions (real actions like zuckuss too, not game definition of action) that would make you gain another stress.

2 minutes ago, Vitalis said:

1. No. Stupid. Kills too many cards. Cards are sometimes designed to work on bumps (like X7) - that that not...dont work on bumps.

2. Interesting but why? Range 1 is supposed to be reward for good flying.

3.Maybe not in this form, but yes upper limit of stresses is good idea. I would say: if you got 5 or more you cannot perform any actions (real actions like zuckuss too, not game definition of action) that would make you gain another stress.

What cards does it kill? If you don't bump they all still work. X7 is overpowered and we all know it. Now you have to fly better don't bump and you still get it.

As for the Range 1 comment, it would take effect at all ranges and as for Kylo, you would have to target lock and re-roll even some of your hits possibly.

1 minute ago, eagletsi111 said:

What cards does it kill? If you don't bump they all still work. X7 is overpowered and we all know it. Now you have to fly better don't bump and you still get it.

Well it is very counterproductive for Oicunns Dauntless...literaly making that title useless.

4 minutes ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

Well it is very counterproductive for Oicunns Dauntless...literaly making that title useless.

True. You are right about that? But sometimes cards have to suffer to better the game. I use Oicunn and Dauntless alot, so I would just have to give that up. Or you could change number 1 to state, unless a card specifically states, after Overlap then effect. I think that may be the only card

2 minutes ago, eagletsi111 said:

True. You are right about that? But sometimes cards have to suffer to better the game. I use Oicunn and Dauntless alot, so I would just have to give that up. Or you could change number 1 to state, unless a card specifically states, after Overlap then effect. I think that may be the only card

Yeah you could maybe even justify it under the "cards can allow things that aren't allowed normally" rule, however to be practical your rules change would need to be worded "ships that are in base contact with another ship may not receive any target ´lock, focus, or evade tokens" I would like this change I believe, but now it is difficult to make Dauntless work again, at least outside of Daredevil double manouvers. Although thinking about it, maybe it is fine, since the most important use for Dauntless at the moment is Kylo anyways, who wouldn't care...

I think this is seriously worth consideration.

1: definitely not. Too awkward, too blanket. There are cards that work on bumps that need to be fixed, but fix them by fixing them, not by a giant hammer that bashes a bunch of unnecessary extra cards too. Specifically, fix Manaroo by limiting her range, and fix /x7 by changing its price and/or adding a limitation that it doesn't work when stressed, when you overlap a ship/rock, or both.

2: My thought on this was 'if you roll 5+dice, at the end of attacker modifies attack dice, cancel dice until 4 dice remain'. The only card it makes virtually completely worthless then is APT. Spike damage is definitely something I find problematic about the meta at the moment, and it makes extra dice above 5 add to reliability, not spiking.

3: Not the best fix. Again, the problem is that there are upgrades for which the stress penalty, is not a penalty (primarily R3A2 and Zuckuss crew). Fix those, not the base mechanic.

In short: fix problem cards by fixing the cards, not by fiddling with the base mechanics which are for the most part fine.

1. I personally don't dig this rule mod even though I've never flown Oicunns Dautless. I do think there are bigger fish to fry that'll fix some of this.

2. A little more hesitant, but no here too. Red dice creep is real and it's stinks, but it's not the dice per say, it's the mindlink stuff that makes crazy attacks possible (it and Roo need range restrictions); yes Finn, it's really about you you nasty bugger.

3. Stress stacking is a really stupid allowed thing in the game, I think. Some negative result must stack in accordance. I thought Slicer Tools was a good idea but done wrong. I think it should have read, "All stressed ships within range 2 must roll 1 attack die for each stress token. On a hit or critical hit result, deal 1 facedown damage card. Then remove all stress tokens and discard this card."

54 minutes ago, eagletsi111 said:

X7 is overpowered and we all know it.

Matter of opinion.

5 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Matter of opinion.

Matter of statistics (descriptive that is). Which tell us x7 has made the already outrageously strong imperial aces almost extinct...

See: http://meta-wing.com/upgrades?large_tournament_multiplier=true&widespread_use_multiplier=true&use_ranking_data=all&ranking_start=2016-12-15&ranking_end=2017-02-15&tournament_type=&

and: http://meta-wing.com/pilots?large_tournament_multiplier=true&widespread_use_multiplier=true&use_ranking_data=all&ranking_start=2016-12-15&ranking_end=2017-02-15&tournament_type=&

27 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Matter of opinion.

Really not a matter of opinion. /x7 has basically killed all other imperial ships except palp shuttles and Decimators in the current high level meta.

Admittedly, some of that is because x7 counters counter non-x7s harder than other ships, but it's pretty widely accepted that x7 is too powerful, too cheap, or both.

Interesting.

1) I honestly think this is a fine idea. It does indeed force more consideration when setting your dial.

2) Sorry, have to disagree on this one.

3) Is interesting and I like it on the surface. However what would happen when they get these 5 stress and then their dial is all red? Do they have to stop? I'd make the change that "if a ship has 5 or more stress, then the only move they can make is a 1 forward". Then watch them cry as their ship sails off the board. Seriously, their are too many ways around stress these days that it's hardly a negative anymore.

The overall issue is the game design. FFG keeps putting out more and more powerful ships, often with cards and mechanics that can break the rules of the game. Power creep is a very real thing and it sucks. They need to do more play testing before releasing a ship to ensure balance. I personally think they do it on purpose to force you to buy the next great thing, but I digress. I've seen countless "fix the x-wing" of "fix ship "whatever"" since I've returned to the game. A serious look at the game in it's entirety by FFG is what's needed, and they need to stop the power creep!

Have you considered a range 1-3 limit on all abilities and upgrades (unless otherwise stated, like Long Range Scanners)?

x7 didnt kill the other imp ships, all the stupid auto damage did. I dont wanna run Vader anymore not because x7 defenders are "better" but because unlike Vader they can tank that ridiculously high dice attack with auto damage (by that i mean guaranteed to have a ton of hits/crits not unevadable damage) and then GET AWAY from it the next round and be fine, while Vader gets utterly shafted if he kturns.

Ive never felt like x7 was gamebreaking. It makes the dang thing tough as nails sure but its anything but OP. Ryad might be a little nuts specifically i'll admit.

Also, for number1 on the OP: you would shut down a TON of cards and abilities. Arvel, Oicunn, Heff, Intimidation, BoShek, etc etc. This game is designed around intentional bumping, you cant put a flat negative on it without neutering the game variety.

I'm pretty sure x7 didn't kill Soontir or the inquisitor, that prize goes to sabine crew, assaj, and black market slicer tools. Seems real bad to fly ptl aces when you can die to a few coin flips from slicer or when people are just flying a good ship that incidentally can double stress you or when connor net which already wrecks you also does 1/2 - 2/3 of your hp.

X7 defenders are good but they can still be handled by other imperial aces if those aces didn't get completely crapped on by heavy counters.

5 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

This game is designed around intentional bumping, you cant put a flat negative on it without neutering the game variety.

Which is stupid if you ask me. In the three dimensions of space ships wouldn't hit each other, and if they did, they'd be damaged. Maybe they need to add that to the game. Anyhow, I get that the game design had to have something for bumping, as you have a two dimensional surface representing space. However the intentional bumping is just dumb.

And Starwars is known for throwing the laws of space and physics out the window. Yes, i know its 3 dimensional, almost no scifi flick actually accounts for that. And even though it would be cool to have elevation be a thing it would also be really tedious and tiresome.

Just now, Clancampbell said:

Which is stupid if you ask me. In the three dimensions of space ships wouldn't hit each other, and if they did, they'd be damaged. Maybe they need to add that to the game. Anyhow, I get that the game design had to have something for bumping, as you have a two dimensional surface representing space. However the intentional bumping is just dumb.

They're not bumping, they're swerving to avoid each other like in the original push the limit art.

I agree. Too much creep. Really expansions are coming too quickly.

What might work is more debuffs like Old Teroch. Many of the MOAR! Ships stack tokens, give low cost generics a way to strip tokens or even Fett like card removal. Then the expensive super ships get brought into check a bit and older, cheaper ships can compete.

If you're made to just fight off ship stats, we can get a little deescalation.

Truthfully I see titles for old ships or a new card type (call them "squad" cards).

If you met certain composition requirements, you get given debuff abilities. You could use this to bring back thematic lists and encourage the use of passed over ships.

For example:

veteran xwings: include 3 XWings in your list and you can have defenders reroll one green die each XWing attack

veteran headhunters: include 3 Z-95s and defenders can't modify dice when defending

swarm: include 4 same ships in a list and additional attacks on the same target force the spending of green tokens for no effect, if the defender has no tokens, reduce its green dice pool by one.

Imperial combined arms: if you have 2 tie bombers (or 1 punisher) and 2 tie fighters your opponent cannot pass tokens between ships.

These are just examples off the top of my head. If you want to freak out and bash one, go ahead, but you just become a cable news anchor and are attacking something to fill space that has nothing to do with the concept I'm advocating

2 minutes ago, Clancampbell said:

Which is stupid if you ask me. In the three dimensions of space ships wouldn't hit each other, and if they did, they'd be damaged. Maybe they need to add that to the game. Anyhow, I get that the game design had to have something for bumping, as you have a two dimensional surface representing space. However the intentional bumping is just dumb.

Intentional bumping specifically DOES represent 3D space in 2d though - it's designed to simulate ships coming close to one another and ending up above or below or forced to swerve upwards or downwards to avoid a collision.

So I'm not sure how your objections is an objection, even if it wasn't a game with decisions made for balance and tactics rather than realism.

1 minute ago, Clancampbell said:

Which is stupid if you ask me. In the three dimensions of space ships wouldn't hit each other, and if they did, they'd be damaged. Maybe they need to add that to the game. Anyhow, I get that the game design had to have something for bumping, as you have a two dimensional surface representing space. However the intentional bumping is just dumb.

That was the original reason for losing your action if your base overlapped another ship's base. You had to dodge up or down and that sudden maneuver meant you couldn't focus, target lock, or barrel roll. In fact, back in wave 1, some people were as turned off by intentional bumps as people are now about fortressing. People thought that blocking other ships didn't fit the theme of the game. After a while, people got used to it. So I disagree with @Vineheart01 that intentional bumping was built into the game. There was a penalty originally given for bumping to encourage people to avoid bumping. Then people figured out that you could be strategic with it, so the devs started adding effects that rewarded it.

Would making the Range 1 modifier only apply if the target is in arc screw things up too much? It would hit PWT ships, but they already have a benefit of not having to have a ship in arc to shoot in the first place, so that would seem to balance it out.

2 minutes ago, Budgernaut said:

That was the original reason for losing your action if your base overlapped another ship's base. You had to dodge up or down and that sudden maneuver meant you couldn't focus, target lock, or barrel roll. In fact, back in wave 1, some people were as turned off by intentional bumps as people are now about fortressing. People thought that blocking other ships didn't fit the theme of the game. After a while, people got used to it. So I disagree with @Vineheart01 that intentional bumping was built into the game. There was a penalty originally given for bumping to encourage people to avoid bumping. Then people figured out that you could be strategic with it, so the devs started adding effects that rewarded it.

Right, so they shouldn't have designed things that rewarded bumping. I'm fine with bumping in general and losing your action. There just should not be a reward for doing it. Bumping should be viewed (like it was in the early days) as a mistake, not as a viable tactic.

1.

I think bumping is fine as a tactic. You are sending your low ps scrub as a distraction so your heavy hitter can attack a more valuable target. Seems legit.

Really, the only problem is x7s. The card should read "complete a ..... maneuver" not reveal. That would fix everything and be a soft errata.

I don't feel Manaroo's ability is broken. That is a third of a list being devoted just for actions. Honestly, I feel like that ship best represents what the designers kind of hoped the Rebel HWKs would be. The problem with her has more to do with how quickly large base ships can run away.

2.

Too complicated. Anyway, most red dice power creep involves ridiculous Rebel Rube Goldberg machines, or perfect positioning. Doesn't bother me much.

3.

I am closer to agreeing with you here. Giant stress piles are more in conflict with the game. I would like to see this as a rule. "At the end phase, roll a die for each stress over two. For each focus result, suffer one facedown damage card."

This would allow them to pile on stress if they feel it is worth the risk. A party bus could afford to do it for a few turns, but that is fine. It cuts it down just enough. It should be a damage card to avoid regen.

Really, the only other rule change i would like to see is for it to cost a focus token to shoot out of arc.