7 minutes ago, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:

How many times have you played with Insidious? How many times have you performed the rear shot at blue range? All these benefits you're naming you get without having to spend three points on Insidious, because you can still try and flank people without the title.

Plus if you don't like my posts, no one is forcing you to reply.

So far, one game and it actually killed a CR90. It would have gotten around an MC80 as well, but my Raider had it pinned and my Arq was able to kill it the same turn.

It's just annoying because this is a thought experiment, and you decide to disregard the purpose of this by saying don't use it. It's like asking how to use combat GR-75 and you reply not to use it. I agree it can be a waste of points, but not everything in a fleet has to be utilized to get value. The fear of giving someone black dice at medium range is more than enough value for me to want to use it. Plus, I am taking 2 Glads, it's very boring to only run Demo.

http://armadawarlords.hivelabs.solutions/view_list.php?token=82127&key=1dc31fe2146b4e96b9617a3f823caf55

this is the list i whipped up.

I like it. could potentially go double raider and drop the gozanti if i really want too

I wonder if Assault Concussion Missiles is better for Insidious.

The Demo likely hit a front or side shield (or a side shield took redirect damage). Damage that would wrap from the rear arc into these damaged arcs could be fatal.

3 minutes ago, BergerFett said:

http://armadawarlords.hivelabs.solutions/view_list.php?token=82127&key=1dc31fe2146b4e96b9617a3f823caf55

this is the list i whipped up.

I like it. could potentially go double raider and drop the gozanti if i really want too

It's a nice list, and it reminded me I need to get Needa/TRC on my Arq instead of DTT.

I think it's funny we both have 1 lambda and some other fighters. My current list, not posted yet, has a Lambda and Jonus. Lambda just for Strategic with Hyperspace Assault. I might drop it because that's the only token based objective I have. Jonus for the valuable Acc with a Glad II Demo.

I do question if you need Tua/ECM on the Gozanti. With Relay, the Gozanti can run way form the fight, so there should be no reason it needs ECM, and if your opponent really wants to kill it, he will send something to ram it.

7 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

It's a nice list, and it reminded me I need to get Needa/TRC on my Arq instead of DTT.

I think it's funny we both have 1 lambda and some other fighters. My current list, not posted yet, has a Lambda and Jonus. Lambda just for Strategic with Hyperspace Assault. I might drop it because that's the only token based objective I have. Jonus for the valuable Acc with a Glad II Demo.

I do question if you need Tua/ECM on the Gozanti. With Relay, the Gozanti can run way form the fight, so there should be no reason it needs ECM, and if your opponent really wants to kill it, he will send something to ram it.

if im going to flotilla admiral i do it i could drop for tie interceptor for deployments i guess.

13 minutes ago, Democratus said:

I wonder if Assault Concussion Missiles is better for Insidious.

The Demo likely hit a front or side shield (or a side shield took redirect damage). Damage that would wrap from the rear arc into these damaged arcs could be fatal.

That was the original idea for this fleet. But I think I prefer 2 APT instead. I might do ACM is I was running Screed so I always will strip shields off. The APT is more of a bonus and fear factor. Rapid Reload might be good on Demo as well is Insidious has ACM, which is something I thought I'd never say hahaha. 6 black dice out the side is really good, and if the ship already has weakened shields, you might just kill it.

Here is my updated Dual Glad list.

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 393/400

Commander: Moff Jerjerrod

Assault Objective: Opening Salvo
Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault
Navigation Objective: Navigational Hazards

Gladiator II-Class Star Destroyer (62 points)
- Demolisher ( 10 points)
- Chart Officer ( 2 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 91 total ship cost

Gladiator I-Class Star Destroyer (56 points)
- Insidious ( 3 points)
- Chart Officer ( 2 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 78 total ship cost

Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 points)
- Captain Needa ( 2 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 63 total ship cost

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)
- Agent Kallus ( 3 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Flechette Torpedoes ( 3 points)
= 54 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Gozanti-class Assault Carriers (28 points)
- Moff Jerjerrod ( 23 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 53 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Assault Carriers (28 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 30 total ship cost

1 Captain Jonus ( 16 points)
1 TIE Fighter Squadron ( 8 points)

I like it, 6 activations is good.

A 7 point bid for a list that really wants to go first is very light. You need to bid like you mean it. TO is a bit inflated but even world's in Nov had a 23 (which is quite high). Drop the tie and get 15 IMO, the tie won't really help significantly anyway. 15 still wouldn't get first player here though against a list that wants it.

5 minutes ago, Darthain said:

A 7 point bid for a list that really wants to go first is very light. You need to bid like you mean it. TO is a bit inflated but even world's in Nov had a 23 (which is quite high). Drop the tie and get 15 IMO, the tie won't really help significantly anyway. 15 still wouldn't get first player here though against a list that wants it.

ive found that a 7-9 bid has been more than enough lately. I am sure there are a few outliers in the meta but the majority of fleets im seeing are 396+ base.

TIE gives him another deployment. try it both ways but going second with that many activations isn't bad either.

29 minutes ago, Darthain said:

A 7 point bid for a list that really wants to go first is very light. You need to bid like you mean it. TO is a bit inflated but even world's in Nov had a 23 (which is quite high). Drop the tie and get 15 IMO, the tie won't really help significantly anyway. 15 still wouldn't get first player here though against a list that wants it.

In NC, we really don't take bids too seriously, because one of the first things we ask is "What type of game do you want to play? Do you want initiative and what objective do you want to play?" And we do this so we can understand how your fleets play as 1st and 2nd player. Now that I think about it, I really don't know how my bids compares to the others in the area.

The 23 point bid for worlds was like 5 points higher than anything else I thought. Way too much.

I have a feeling that with the new objectives, most people don't mind going first or second. I haven't looked at the bids for regionals data, so I don't know how it compares to other areas. If I wanted a higher bid, I'd drop the Glad II to I, and drop Jonus and the Tie for 2 Tie/B so I have a deployment, and a little more firepower.

27 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

In NC, we really don't take bids too seriously, because one of the first things we ask is "What type of game do you want to play? Do you want initiative and what objective do you want to play?" And we do this so we can understand how your fleets play as 1st and 2nd player. Now that I think about it, I really don't know how my bids compares to the others in the area.

The 23 point bid for worlds was like 5 points higher than anything else I thought. Way too much.

I have a feeling that with the new objectives, most people don't mind going first or second. I haven't looked at the bids for regionals data, so I don't know how it compares to other areas. If I wanted a higher bid, I'd drop the Glad II to I, and drop Jonus and the Tie for 2 Tie/B so I have a deployment, and a little more firepower.

Bids have been very odd since the new objectives, you are correct, but you still need to beat that other guy who wants to go first badly too, and he will still fight you for it. I've never seen anyone here ask which initiative you want, unless ofcourse you won the bid. We are flying friendly and casual, but we practice as if the matches are what they will be. Competitively you bid like you mean it, or not at all, and yes it was 5 more than the locals here, but I see 21-22 pop up here time to time too, because you need it.

The fun thing about most initiative lists is how badly they need it, if you big 15 and lose to 16, you are probably setting up to get rolled. Meanwhile if he is 16 and you are 400, well at least you have that on him as second player, but his big bid will still push hard. As above, new objectives and play styles MAY soften that.

6 minutes ago, Darthain said:

Bids have been very odd since the new objectives, you are correct, but you still need to beat that other guy who wants to go first badly too, and he will still fight you for it. I've never seen anyone here ask which initiative you want, unless ofcourse you won the bid. We are flying friendly and casual, but we practice as if the matches are what they will be. Competitively you bid like you mean it, or not at all, and yes it was 5 more than the locals here, but I see 21-22 pop up here time to time too, because you need it.

The fun thing about most initiative lists is how badly they need it, if you big 15 and lose to 16, you are probably setting up to get rolled. Meanwhile if he is 16 and you are 400, well at least you have that on him as second player, but his big bid will still push hard. As above, new objectives and play styles MAY soften that.

Even if I go second, I'm totally fine with that. I'm not sold on Opening Salvo, but being able to throw APTs at long range for a round is great. And the Goz get a nasty alpha strike with 1 red/2 blacks. My opponent gets 2 reds, but all my ships have Evades so it kind of evens out. Hyperspace Assault is clear choice, and I get to choose which Glad goes on an adventure. I expect that one to never get played, because if I run against a Strategic force, Demo gets put out. If it's non-strategic, probably Insidious and the tokens are going right up against my opponents fleet so I get a good rear arc shot.

Navigational Hazards is a really weird choice for this list, but I think it works best with JJ and both Glads with Chart Officers. Tossing asteroids and APTs for those crits. The main reason I picked this one is because I don't see/hear many people play it. The inexperience of that objective, and facing down 2 Glads/6 activations may throw my opponent off their game.

I'd be willing to switch Opening Salvo for Precision Strike, but I worry about running into MC30s, Demo, and bomber lists. Solar Corona can also benefit me by taking away the advantage of first player, and making my ships extra hard to kill.

The main reason I didn't bid hard is because I didn't want to. I'd rather get the tech/utility upgrades to further increase my play style than to go without and hope I don't get outbid. I think my list can beat most large ship lists, and do pretty well against flotillas. I'd probably lose against Rogue lists/134 point bomber lists. And I think it is a draw against other aggressive brawler lists.

The objectives are good, certainly. Opening Salvo is pretty nasty when someone takes it (they throw reds, you throw rainbows). Demo is always nice, pretty much 1 good shot a round, but the triple tap w/ initiative really makes driving the bid worth it.

OS - you have a lot of ships, the return is good
HA - a truly nasty trap if they take it, toss Jonus in and increase the threat level
NH - most of your fleet is pretty maneuverable, shouldn't be an issue.

As far as tech/what you are running, the raider is the oddball. Both gladiators, depending on position are going to want first activation. The raider, if put into a threatening place is going to demand it. It just won't survive otherwise. Watching raiders evaporate is a hobby, if you will. But having that many ships that need to move immediately to be optimal, paired with second player, a lot of the tech you are holding onto will not be useful. Effectively as second player it is likely 2 'first strikes' placed are likely to get away.

The Raider is there to support the Glads, either by taking one for the team and blocking, or a little extra firepower. It also is there to deal with squads, which the Gozantis can help with by throwing blue dice. After playing tonight, I rather like the Raider. It killed a flotilla, and the previous game I played locked an Ackbar 80 in place and dealt 5 damage and 2 rams. I also only need 1 turn to activate squads so my fleet can blow past them to get the carriers.

I'm going to drop Jonus and the Glad II to a Glad I. Jonus is unsupported, and just doesn't work with how fast this fleet is. And there were several times I wanted Demo to have the extra black die instead of a red. I'll probably get some Tie/F in there for deployments and added firepower.

You're braver than me running so few squads but I like the rest of it