So I have a dual Glad list running both titles and JJ. Demo is the normal: ET, OE, APT, Demo. For Insidious, it's the same, but I am unsure what Ord upgrade I should use. I currently have ACM, but APT is my other choice. The idea is getting Insidious into the rear and setting up a double arc and tossing 6/7 black dice at medium range. With ACM, I can strip the shields on the sides, which means a Demo attack can be even more effective since there will be little shields to redirect. The problem is actually getting a rear shot unless I have initiative, and with an 8 point bid, I think I can get that.

So I am wondering what other people think. Am I trying too hard? Should I take the APT and deal lots of crits? I can post the entire list later, but the main concept is based around both Glads.

On a different note, I am surprised no one used Insidious. 3 points is amazing for a little utility and massive threat. Similar to Paragon, it forces my opponent to fly differently.

I'm a big fan of expanded launchers, for both. Insidious definitely.

I'm toying with the 2 glad, 2 arq, 2 goz swarmification.

I think Insidious and Demo with Captain Jonus is a superb big ship killer. Insidious will struggle more against TRC90/DemSU lists I feel, just because they can keep out of it's way a lot more easily, but I'd agree that expanded launchers would be good.

14 hours ago, Darthain said:

I'm a big fan of expanded launchers, for both. Insidious definitely.

I'm toying with the 2 glad, 2 arq, 2 goz swarmification.

I prefer APT or ACM because the chances of getting your front lined up with the rear is pretty low, even with JJ and ET. Strafing past the target and throwing 4/5 blacks out the side at medium is more viable, and it doesn't dictate where my movements have to be. With Hyperspace Assault, I can drop in the back field and just run in a straight line tossing blacks from the side.

With JJ, ET and a Nav gladiator get 7 clicks, lining up is the least of anyone's worries at that point.

The skewed one big arc is always fun as well, I prefer ACM to APT given the choice, less face up sure, but more damage. The expanded real advantage is not needing to rely on crit rolls, yes you should get one, but you don't always, especially with my luck.

Glad you made this post.

I was looking for a good flotilla solution/build using demo, and I found a great one.

Screed with the Demo-II, kitted like so:

1) Sensor Team

2) APT

3) engine techs

It auto-kills any flotilla (as long as you ram it once; maybe not a motti flotilla unless you ram twice but you have e-techs), unless of course it has ECM. It also auto-kills any flotilla out of the front or side arc.

Honestly I've never been very impressed with Insidious used as a "fly around behind the back" ship. It's easy to see coming and avoid and it takes longer to set up. I'm more impressed with Insidious on the follow-up Gladiator where it makes avoiding that Gladiator more difficult. I just wrote a big post on Gladiators yesterday , so I'd direct you to the Insidious-specific part (with example diagram) about 2/3 down.

32 minutes ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

Glad you made this post.

I was looking for a good flotilla solution/build using demo, and I found a great one.

Screed with the Demo-II, kitted like so:

1) Sensor Team

2) APT

3) engine techs

It auto-kills any flotilla (as long as you ram it once; maybe not a motti flotilla unless you ram twice but you have e-techs), unless of course it has ECM. It also auto-kills any flotilla out of the front or side arc.

Gink! Ginkapo! Look! Look! Sensor teams Gink!

waiiiiiit...are you Ginkapo? I dunno that I've ever seen both of you in the same place at the same time...

I love throwing Insidious in my list when I have a second gladiator and points to spare. I often use him as the initial attacker, lining up his double arc for the opening of the following round before hopping the enemy formation and taking medium range rear shots the rest of the game. Meanwhile, with Demo waiting in the wings (with EL, the almost guaranteed damage is just too good), my opponent will have to choose between going after Insiduous or waiting to defend itself against Demo

I have two words for you regarding Insidious..."Hyperspace assault"

As has been noted elsewhere - getting an opponent to choose HA while you have Insidious is the trick indeed.

I find that Insidious is a better cleanup ship / chaser, so I usually use ACMs on it for wraparound damage and a little bit of redirect hate.

Plus there's always the potential that you'll drop damage on hull zones that have already been shaved down a bit.

Always APTs on Demo though.

2 minutes ago, Eggzavier said:

As has been noted elsewhere - getting an opponent to choose HA while you have Insidious is the trick indeed.

I find that Insidious is a better cleanup ship / chaser, so I usually use ACMs on it for wraparound damage and a little bit of redirect hate.

Plus there's always the potential that you'll drop damage on hull zones that have already been shaved down a bit.

Always APTs on Demo though.

Yea that's my thoughts as well. Running Most Wanted and Salvage Run as the other objectives. Most Wanted is likely to be picked most, and I have a Goz to pick for that. Demo and Insidious can kill my target. Salvage Run gives me the valuable Nav token, and with 1 Lambda, I can hopefully get all the tokens. Plus the dust fields help set up an attack run with Demo, as it burst out of the cloud without taking any incoming damage.

41 minutes ago, itzSteve said:

I have two words for you regarding Insidious..."Hyperspace assault"

The problem is why not Demolisher instead? If you're going second, a Hyperspace Assault Demolisher can still just be absolutely horrific and will generally get more mileage than Insidious as it's much harder to dodge.

Just now, Snipafist said:

The problem is why not Demolisher instead? If you're going second, a Hyperspace Assault Demolisher can still just be absolutely horrific and will generally get more mileage than Insidious as it's much harder to dodge.

Why not both?

Obviously you can't hold both back, but a Demo from the front and an Insidious in the rear sounds like the kind of two pronged threat that hurts like hell.

1 minute ago, Eggzavier said:

Why not both?

Obviously you can't hold both back, but a Demo from the front and an Insidious in the rear sounds like the kind of two pronged threat that hurts like hell.

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm quite happy to run both titles together when I run more than one Gladiator. The main question is why not Hyperspace Assault with the Demolisher given that the normal problem for Hyperspace Assault ships that are short-ranged is enemies can activate before you to get away from the worst of it? Insidious helps there a bit due to extended range when attacking the rear, but Demolisher helps there a lot due to the ability to make attacks while running down prey that's trying to escape.

Just now, Snipafist said:

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm quite happy to run both titles together when I run more than one Gladiator. The main question is why not Hyperspace Assault with the Demolisher given that the normal problem for Hyperspace Assault ships that are short-ranged is enemies can activate before you to get away from the worst of it? Insidious helps there a bit due to extended range when attacking the rear, but Demolisher helps there a lot due to the ability to make attacks while running down prey that's trying to escape.

Super valid points.

I guess it might be matchup specific - picking which one you hold back depending on what your opponent is throwing your way.

Again though, this all comes down to an opponent who when sitting across from a Demo/Insidious/whatever else list picks HA as the objective they wanna play haha

31 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm quite happy to run both titles together when I run more than one Gladiator. The main question is why not Hyperspace Assault with the Demolisher given that the normal problem for Hyperspace Assault ships that are short-ranged is enemies can activate before you to get away from the worst of it? Insidious helps there a bit due to extended range when attacking the rear, but Demolisher helps there a lot due to the ability to make attacks while running down prey that's trying to escape.

My answer was in regards to the title of the thread. If I am running both titles for the Glad, I will put Insidious into hyperspace and when it comes out I try to make sure that it has a shot at two targets, leaving my opponent a choice of which ship that will get shot at. Also, most ships that are in the rear of the formation tend to not be going any faster than speed 1 or 2, so Insidious coming in at speed 3 will keep up with most anything in front of it. It also forces the opponent to push their ships into whatever my front facing threats are.

1 hour ago, Undeadguy said:

Yea that's my thoughts as well. Running Most Wanted and Salvage Run as the other objectives. Most Wanted is likely to be picked most, and I have a Goz to pick for that. Demo and Insidious can kill my target. Salvage Run gives me the valuable Nav token, and with 1 Lambda, I can hopefully get all the tokens. Plus the dust fields help set up an attack run with Demo, as it burst out of the cloud without taking any incoming damage.

With 1lambda you won't get all the tokens, with 2 vcx and double FCT I stop has to rescue a token from a raider one game. Against another opponent with strategic it was 3-1 (and he only had 1, and I had to really fight for that third one).

With aggressive positioning with my ships and screening the tokens with fighters, I can stop FCT and prevent a strategic squad from getting within range 1.

I find the raiders to be good flotilla hunters for half the price.

As for Insidious. I like expanded launchers but at that point you are "all in" on the title I feel. APTs is probably the best as dealing direct damage, crits even, is king.

I half expect to see a rise in Damage Control Officers due to APTs and other specialized crit effects. No Missiles may be the answer. If playing JJerod use engine techs if playing screed use sensor team. You can intel team both and probably should.

Ive been debating a 2x glad 2x arq 2x raider list

You'll get more milage out of the inititive bid than you will out of the insidious title.

11 minutes ago, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:

You'll get more milage out of the inititive bid than you will out of the insidious title.

The whole point of this thread is to theorycraft a Insidious/Demo list. Plus, the list I already have has a 9 point bid and 6 activations.

3 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

The whole point of this thread is to theorycraft a Insidious/Demo list. Plus, the list I already have has a 9 point bid and 6 activations.

And all those lists are better, exactly as they are, without the points spent on the insidious title.

13 minutes ago, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:

And all those lists are better, exactly as they are, without the points spent on the insidious title.

I disagree. 3 points is not a lot to spend when you influence how your opponent will pick objectives, deploy, and move their fleet. It may be easy to not reveal a rear shot, but is it because they are Navving extra hard to avoid that?

Plus, if you don't like the idea, no one is forcing you to give your input.

8 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

I disagree. 3 points is not a lot to spend when you influence how your opponent will pick objectives, deploy, and move their fleet. It may be easy to not reveal a rear shot, but is it because they are Navving extra hard to avoid that?

Plus, if you don't like the idea, no one is forcing you to give your input.

How many times have you played with Insidious? How many times have you performed the rear shot at blue range? All these benefits you're naming you get without having to spend three points on Insidious, because you can still try and flank people without the title.

Plus if you don't like my posts, no one is forcing you to reply.