450 seems like a perfect middle ground. Lets you field more large or medium ships, and at most it's 1 or 2 more squadrons to move which shouldn't make games that much longer IMO.

It really isn't though. Remember, the squadron cap isn't just about jamming it all in. If you have several oddly-priced squadrons, you may end up with too few points to add a new squadron or upgrade a generic. A 50 point upgrade would increase the cap by 16 points. That's not a big improvement from the squad cap, but from 128 points that's enough to field any Rebel or Imperial hero below 23 points. And there are many who would normally fight for a position there.

here's a thought exercise: for less than 50 points you can fit Lt Blount and 5 Z-95s. A hundred point bomber wing with that backup to harass enemy squadrons would significantly outclass most enemy squadron builds.

9 minutes ago, thecactusman17 said:

It really isn't though. Remember, the squadron cap isn't just about jamming it all in. If you have several oddly-priced squadrons, you may end up with too few points to add a new squadron or upgrade a generic. A 50 point upgrade would increase the cap by 16 points. That's not a big improvement from the squad cap, but from 128 points that's enough to field any Rebel or Imperial hero below 23 points. And there are many who would normally fight for a position there.

here's a thought exercise: for less than 50 points you can fit Lt Blount and 5 Z-95s. A hundred point bomber wing with that backup to harass enemy squadrons would significantly outclass most enemy squadron builds.

it really isn't what exactly?

5 hours ago, Sybreed said:

it really isn't what exactly?

A minor increase in squadron capability. Sorry.

4 hours ago, thecactusman17 said:

A minor increase in squadron capability. Sorry.

Ah I see! Well from an impact on the squadron game, perhaps not, but I really meant it's only adding 1 or 2 additionnal squadrons in the squadron game. I was referring to the impact in the lenght of games you see?

We run 1,000 point games from time to time.

It's kinda clunky and long winded, but compared to 40k is still a breeze.

A 2 card per ship rule really helps.

11 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

One solution is to create a flotilla cap: only 100 points cAn be spent on flotillas and upgrades attached to them including admirals.

10 hours ago, thecactusman17 said:

I wonder if maybe the way to fix flotillas is to make the ship hull count towards the squadron cap? At 167 points, it balances that out a little more. You can still field 2-3 and several generics, but no more big pile of flotillas commanding a dozen generics and unique squads without any issues.

Where is all this hate for floatillas coming from? Floatillas have added a much needed role to Armada. Especially for the Empire. Between being able to remove damage and deal commands to protecting anti fighter squads and giving bombers better odds they're much more than just an activation place holder. The floatillas work just fine as is. Dedicated support roles are useful.

I do see how people could see flotillas at 500 points being a problem I mean you could take a good rebel list now and add 5 activations with the extra 100 points. I have always been a guy that likes higher activation fleets, but with flotillas there are dimishing returns. While they add activations I add firepower and distroy there flotillas and they slowly lose activation advantage no only that but they don't have the fire power to bring to bear against my extra ships and cannot compete with the extra hull and guns in my fleet.

6 hours ago, Darth Sanguis said:

Where is all this hate for floatillas coming from? Floatillas have added a much needed role to Armada. Especially for the Empire. Between being able to remove damage and deal commands to protecting anti fighter squads and giving bombers better odds they're much more than just an activation place holder. The floatillas work just fine as is. Dedicated support roles are useful.

Don't know where the thought that I hate flotillas comes from. Flotillas are great, really. My concern is the squadron game. 134 points of flotillas is 134 points of valu, but 134 points of squadrons is equivalent to around 200-250 points of ships in terms of durability, firepower, and maneuverability against ships and squadrons.

26 minutes ago, thecactusman17 said:

Don't know where the thought that I hate flotillas comes from. Flotillas are great, really. My concern is the squadron game. 134 points of flotillas is 134 points of valu, but 134 points of squadrons is equivalent to around 200-250 points of ships in terms of durability, firepower, and maneuverability against ships and squadrons.

Well you started your statement with "maybe the way to fix flotillas is", so that's where I got the impression, cause I don't think those are broken.

Also I don't think that's really an accurate assessment on squadrons. I mean sure, 134 points in squads against a single ISD, they come out looking way more powerful, but each fleet is a summary of all it's parts. 134 points of squads vs, say, an Anti squad raider, JF gozanti and say 60points of fighters as a screen, and you can tear squads up if you know what you're doing.

Squads are fairly balanced at this point, so long as you pay attention, their difficulty scales based on how prepared you are to face them. People who hate squadron play and don't field/activate squads often get tore up by them. People who dedicate points to either a screen or bombers tend to do alright against them. Heck, my top fleet right now is only 4 advanceds and a jumpmaster, but with my jamming fields and fire support from the gozantis, it's enough to tie up most enemies long enough to kill em. under most circumstances anyways.

i think 400 is fine. It needed to be raised because even w/o large ships 300 went away QUICK and you still felt like you had no real strategy going on.

4 hours ago, xero989 said:

I do see how people could see flotillas at 500 points being a problem I mean you could take a good rebel list now and add 5 activations with the extra 100 points. I have always been a guy that likes higher activation fleets, but with flotillas there are dimishing returns. While they add activations I add firepower and distroy there flotillas and they slowly lose activation advantage no only that but they don't have the fire power to bring to bear against my extra ships and cannot compete with the extra hull and guns in my fleet.

One way to fix this (the activation imbalance) is to front load the extra activations. Thoughts?

I don't hate flotillas either. Just a thought.

(I do hate squadrons. You all know. I know. )