Tramp, you've read the rules, but you know nothing about how to apply them. Career names mean so very little in reality, but you're stuck on them being dominating factors. I can tell you from actual play experience, that you are entirely wrong.

Try playing the game. You might learn something. On the other hand, you're more likely to thoroughly annoy your fellow players until they dump you from the group, so perhaps RAW-dogging rules arguments online is the only way you can engage with the game. It's your masturbation to replace intimacy with a partner.

Oh, that last line... Metaphor.

@Tramp Graphics, I have a player in my current Edge of the Empire game who is an Explorer mechanically, but he is narratively a former Imperial soldier - and has never called himself an Explorer or even said he was. Would you like the player's contact information so you can tell them they're wrong and have to be called an Explorer?

Heck, same thing for another player who is playing a Seeker. And me, for that matter, with my Guardian.

A character's career does not define who they are. The character does, as well as their story. The careers and specializations are simply ways to express an almost infinite number of character concepts using a system. The career names are just labels - nothing forces the character to call themselves a Smuggler, Bounty Hunter, Hired Gun, Soldier, Consular, Guardian, or whatever else they may be.

Oh, so you have to play your Seer as flamboyant and charismatic?

its a role played game. You can give your character any outlook, mindset or personality trait you want regardless of Career.

Seriously, you'd tell a player "your character can't do that, they're a Consular!" That's essentially what you're doing here.

PCs are allowed to start with mindsets contrary to their supposed Career Mindset. And even if they did start that way they are welcome to change them later. The significance of a "permanent" career is not what you're making it out to be.

And you still have yet to cite canon. You've also ignored a previous edition's decision to largely ignore Yoda being a consular. Somehow an officially licensed product managed to do it.

3 minutes ago, Jedi Ronin said:

You've also ignored a previous edition's decision to largely ignore Yoda being a consular.

He already said Saga edition was a piece of ****, so.

Tramp, I can see why you cherry picked that Mystic quote. The entire Mystic Stories section and particularly the Seer entry do a great job of describing Yoda. Advisor is also a good description of Yoda as a teacher and wise mentor.

Not that a player is beholden to any of that. Advisor says they seek not to be corrupted by the lure of power. That's not a restriction - it's a potential character seed. Totally optional.

In fact all is the "determine your personality" sections from Motivation to Morality don't depend on your career at all. Splat books give more targeted options in this regard but they are entirely optional and offer a very wide array of character types.

12 minutes ago, StarkJunior said:

He already said Saga edition was a piece of ****, so.

But it's still official!

Just now, Jedi Ronin said:

But it's still official!

Oh, sure - but he's already displayed he'll cast aside canon or anything official if it conflicts with his views.

8 hours ago, Stan Fresh said:

Always with the excuses, huh. Think things through, man. It's not "personal", it's that your behavior is particularly bad.

My behavior is fine. You're just upset that I take apart your arguments and leave you with nothing to come back with. It's cool.

Tramp, I think ultimately our disagreement is that you seem to insist that a player can role play "wrong" whereas I don't.

If you were running a game and told the players to create any member of the Jedi High Council they wanted and a player picked Yoda and started him in Seeker or Mystic you'd tell them to redo it starting in Consular because they made their character wrong?

1 hour ago, Tramp Graphics said:

It is relevant if you're building him as a PC, which, as you know has already been done at least once. PCs don't have unlimited budgets.

I've seen you argue otherwise dude. Which is it? Also who gets to decide when it is and isn't appropriate to give a PC an unlimited budget?

Also, Tramp your are incorrect about other Star Wars RPG games. Multi-classing is the same in concept as taking out of Career specs. Your first class picked has a number of permanent features - including class skills.

And these classes all had fluff narrative descriptions about the characters in them.

It's standard RPG stuff.

@Tramp Graphics, I'll take your non-response to my challenge as indication that you cannot build the definitive Yoda and are simply running your mouth.

3 hours ago, Stan Fresh said:

Palpatine's, to Anakin.

Insinuation is not a confession.

Tramp, you also cherry picked the Choosing A Career section. It spends several paragraphs saying a character can grow and evolve away from their origins. So much so that "beginning's may bear little resemblance to what they eventually become". And that " The players choices on how to use these abilities determine the characters ultimate fate".

It also says Career can be chosen based on a a character's "predilections or their environment during their youth".

Backing up everything I've said.

1 minute ago, Jedi Ronin said:

Tramp, you also cherry picked the Choosing A Career section. It spends several paragraphs saying a character can grow and evolve away from their origins. So much so that "beginning's may bear little resemblance to what they eventually become". And that " The players choices on how to use these abilities determine the characters ultimate fate".

It also says Career can be chosen based on a a character's "predilections or their environment during their youth".

Backing up everything I've said.

It might help to say it more boldly.

To be fair to Tramp, the beginning of that section describes things as he says: Career is a "reflection of the PC's central personality" with the " overall approach toward challenges and confrontations remains consistent".

The two sections are a bit contradictory - the point is clearly that Careers and specs are tools for the players to use in whatever way works best for them to create the characters and stories they want.

25 minutes ago, awayputurwpn said:

Insinuation is not a confession.

We'd need to ask a space lawyer about that.

17 minutes ago, Jedi Ronin said:

To be fair to Tramp, the beginning of that section describes things as he says: Career is a "reflection of the PC's central personality" with the " overall approach toward challenges and confrontations remains consistent".

The two sections are a bit contradictory - the point is clearly that Careers and specs are tools for the players to use in whatever way works best for them to create the characters and stories they want.

Well, that intent might be clear, but that clarity is likely found through playing the game and seeing how it actually works out through the generation and subsequent advancement of many characters (many of which, as seen IRL, will not be optimized).

On 2/25/2017 at 3:43 PM, Stan Fresh said:

We'd need to ask a space lawyer about that.

Lee Adama, “Space Lawyer” gif.

I can not convey how much fun it is to watch people debate with a theorist. How does anyone take anything he says seriously when his only experience with the game is from reading the books. Even the designers have said nothing is set in stone. Nobody is going to change his dogmatic ideals. Lando's stats were only in regards to the adventure. Even if they stat out anyone else it will be the same. The designers would be the first to tell you to as it best suits your purposes. To argue which way is the right way, especially with someone who hasn't played, seems especially futile. But if you must then just know I am highly entertained.

I'm happy you are happy.

57 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:

We'd need to ask a space lawyer about that.

So you concede that you have no real point?

21 minutes ago, awayputurwpn said:

So you concede that you have no real point?

Since you have not presented any supportable counter-argument, I see no reason to do so.

18 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:

Since you have not presented any supportable counter-argument, I see no reason to do so.

My counter-argument is that Palpatine never made an admission of guilt to Anakin. Anakin made a deduction and told Windu about it. Since I cannot logically prove a negative, and since you were the one that made the assertion in the first place, then it would fall to you to support your own claim as to this supposed "admission."

I do not believe there are any space lawyers who can do it for you

8 minutes ago, awayputurwpn said:

My counter-argument is that Palpatine never made an admission of guilt to Anakin. Anakin made a deduction and told Windu about it. Since I cannot logically prove a negative, and since you were the one that made the assertion in the first place, then it would fall to you to support your own claim as to this supposed "admission."

I do not believe there are any space lawyers who can do it for you

But that counter-argument rests on the idea that any of that would matter legally. Which you can't support.