I know a TIE swarm got Yavin last year, but does the TIE Fighter need a title? Or do you think they're just fine as is?

It just seems to me with the red dice and shield creep that this 2 dice shooter just needs something more...

my thoughts:

+1 die shooting at a target another TIE shot at this turn

or

reroll 1 focus a turn

or

gain an evade token on a green maneuver

something along those lines

No, for two reasons

1. Doesn't need it

2. the TIE Fighter was specifically designed to not be special in any way. Why does it get a title that makes it special then? Thats the whole thing about the Empire.

Not really. Probably the only 2die ship thats never really died off, its still very powerful as a blocker and general annoyance plus they got some pretty dope abilities (abilities that on almost any other ship would be flatout broken, can you imagine Mauler Mithel in a defender? lol)

If they ever got a title it would probably be a bulk "Swarming" title that wouldnt be specific to the TIE/LN.

I'd kinda like to give them all Backstabbers ability or something similar... something like: when attacking an enemy from out of his firing arc, he cannot spend focus tokens...

Of course that might be a bit powerful, dunno.

Quote

No

To get an idea of how Imperial TIEs are doing compared to everything else, check this out:
http://lists.starwarsclubhouse.com/get_tourney_details?tourney_id=2593

That's a nearly complete tournament report from an 88-player regional a few days ago. There are about half a dozen unknown lists. Of the 80 or so complete lists, there is one swarm of Imperial TIE Fighters (looks like they dropped early), and one other squad that features Scourge (also did not pick up many wins). A good amount of First Order TIEs, though.

Galactic Empire TIEs only need a title (or something) if you think it's important that they get more than a notional representation in tournament play. Which I do.

Backstabber's ability is perfect for low PS TIE Fighters, and would go a long way toward bringing them back as filler ships and swarmers.

Assassin Squadron Recruit: Title. 2 points. Galactic Empire TIE Fighter only. When attacking from outside the defender's firing arc, roll 1 additional attack die. You cannot equip this card if your pilot skill value is "4" or higher.

Maybe an EPT that would allow all TIE Fighters within a set range (2?) to use the holder's pilot ability? Make it a limited card so your swarm isn't going full epic Brobots in a 100 pt match. When you tack on the FO's there's only 8 aces that could even field this ability:

"Mauler": Would require expert handling (quality flying not the card) to keep the bulk of your squadron both at range 2 of MM and at range 1 of the target. Any opponent that knows what kind of hurt you're capable of bringing isn't about to make it easy either.

"Howlrunner": Probably would be an insta-faq to state that the ability will only trigger once per attack regardless of how many ships have it. At the most, HR would finally be able to use her ability on herself.

"Scourge" This one would be fun and a blast to synergize with "Wampa". Pretty much putting blood in the water to cause a frenzy in all nearby pilots.

"Youngster" Exceedingly redundant unless you have a variety of EPT actions on your fighters. Still have to be at range 2 so the range 3 of the ability is nerfed.

The Omegas: Might be the breaking point of the card. You'd have to upgrade all LNs with TC but a handful of Epsilons could either put out a lot of pain or negate pretty much all action bars. Maybe put a caveat in that you cannot equip the EPT if you have a tech symbol in your upgrade bar (seems that there's no other way to differentiate the two types of Fighters right now).

The Zetas: Make your squadron dodgier or shootier. Obviously would depend on the ability to use the card on the Omegas without breaking the game.

Again, you'd have to be a master of maneuvering at close quarters to avoid having a traffic jam and half your swarm winds up with no action. It would also be a giant magnet for an Assault Missile alpha strike. Also, the EPT holder can be assured of being the focus of all enemy attacks in order to snipe them and hamstring the rest of the swarm.

All in all, it is a card that only skilled swarm players can successfully utilize. The kind of thing you'd see at tournies and the kind of thing that would encourage newer players to practice their formation movement.

My main quarrel with a single card to buff the swarm is that single ship with that card is no harder to remove. Mithel/Scourge/Wampa thrive on the fact that theyre dirt cheap and generally a waste of an alpha to get rid of so they still tend to murder things, if i had Mithel with that card to share his ability he would be alpha'd EVERY GAME and never get to share it.

If TIEs ever get anything in the lines of a title i'd prefer it to be something that checks how many in an area have this card and the more there is the better.

Also, Swarm Leader really should have been negating the attack of the "feeder" ships by 1 not an evade token. You'd still have the nasty 4-7 die attack depending on the ship, but thats .. basically it as 2 of your other ships are now 1-2 die attacks lol. Also word it "When that ship attacks, reduce its number of red dice by 1" to dodge the Scyk's loophole of "im not using my main gun!" and put in a blip saying the "feeder ship" has to have not attacked yet.

If they ever do X-wing 2.0 it would be cool if all TIE fighters had a built in Howlrunner ability (i.e. When attacking you may re-roll one attack die if you are at range 1 of another TIE Fighter). It would make throwing a couple of generics into a list pretty appealing and it would make you fly them thematically in formation.

A 2nd edition is probably a long ways off though (or its never going to happen) so that's just a pipe dream.

Two die attacks in general need a way to be more effective. A title, a mod, a change to the rules... I'm not really sure what they need. But the Academy Pilot is no longer the baseline ship- it's no longer even within a couple percent of being baseline. That's a problem.

It already got one.

I don't think so. When flown well (read as "Not by me") they are stcompetitive. Maybe not as strong as they once were but can still raise hate and discontent against an opponent.

1 hour ago, Marinealver said:

It already got one.

IKR?! FFG knows ties need more... I'm probably gonna try and make a rebel tie list at this point, just to make them viable

I'd love a 181st or a 302nd fighter wing title cards. Or Black squadron veterans.

If we all have ties and they're only list fillers, it's not a good sign. The Empire had elite squads, a title would be very appropriate to get a few more of those in.

Not free titles, but 1 point

Black squadron vets

1 point, can only be equipped on PS 4 or higher when using and EPT that requires a discard, you may use the card again in the following turn and then discard

181st (Fel's Wing)

1 point: reroll 1 focus a turn

302nd

1 point: if within range 1-2 of a friendly TIE bomber, roll an extra attack die

12th squadron

1 point: if within range 1-2 of a friendly TIE Prototype, change 1 blank green die to an evade when defending

Elite Escort

1 point, if within range 1 of a friendly unique imperial pilot, at the beginning of the combat phase add 1 focus

I've shared this idea before, but I think it is worth mentioning again:

10 minutes ago, Punning Pundit said:

I've shared this idea before, but I think it is worth mentioning again:

I like. Really

FFG should really do a trench run or Hoth set and release an XWing and TIE squadron titles too.

7 minutes ago, Lobokai said:

IKR?! FFG knows ties need more... I'm probably gonna try and make a rebel tie list at this point, just to make them viable

I'd love a 181st or a 302nd fighter wing title cards. Or Black squadron veterans.

If we all have ties and they're only list fillers, it's not a good sign. The Empire had elite squads, a title would be very appropriate to get a few more of those in.

Not free titles, but 1 point

Black squadron vets

1 point, can only be equipped on PS 4 or higher when using and EPT that requires a discard, you may use the card again in the following turn and then discard

181st (Fel's Wing)

1 point: reroll 1 focus a turn

302nd

1 point: if within range 1-2 of a friendly TIE bomber, roll an extra attack die

12th squadron

1 point: if within range 1-2 of a friendly TIE Prototype, change 1 blank green die to an evade when defending

Elite Escort

1 point, if within range 1 of a friendly unique imperial pilot, at the beginning of the combat phase add 1 focus

Well when it comes to X-wings and TIE-Fighters I think the best customization option (and to make sure a title doesn't become overspammed) is to issue unique titles like Red-2 or Back-4. Find some titles that are supposed to match the pilot to get more of a theme with it. Back Stabber could get a free barrel roll action after a speed 3 or hihger move with his title or you could give that title to mauler mithel. Red 5 could give torpedo weapons +1 attack or something along those lines. There is plenty of exploration you can do when looking at the individual starfighters cannon in developing titles for those ships.

I think they a need a bit of help, not as much as some other ships though. Ideally, if point costs for all ships and upgrades were at 100% of their "true" value we would see a wide, even distribution of different ship types and combos in the top ranks of competitive play. In actuality, there are some lists/combos that are more prevalent/dominant. So how far off are a swarm of TIEs from having close to 50-50 odds against the most dominant lists? I don't know the answer, but my guess is at most 8 points, and probably less. Here is an idea I posted in another thread on squads:

Obsidian Squadron (TIE only).

If your squad contains at least 4 TIE fighters, the cost of your squad is reduced by 3.

This could be a Title, or a new type of card assigned to your squadron as a whole. The advantage doesn't go away when the ship the card is assigned to dies. It is really just a cost correction or handicapping method for a 100-pt game. If assigned to a specific ship, it could be worded so that the same card could be assigned to another TIE so it would stack (so if you have 8 TIEs cost is -6). These may not be the right numbers or costs but it is a different and simple way to bring ships into balance w/o imbalancing other stuff. And it encourages same ship squads.

The same thing could be done for other ships like T-65, A-wing, B-wing, etc. How many points away are they from being "equal" to top tier 100 pt lists?

6 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Well when it comes to X-wings and TIE-Fighters I think the best customization option (and to make sure a title doesn't become overspammed) is to issue unique titles like Red-2 or Back-4. Find some titles that are supposed to match the pilot to get more of a theme with it. Back Stabber could get a free barrel roll action after a speed 3 or hihger move with his title or you could give that title to mauler mithel. Red 5 could give torpedo weapons +1 attack or something along those lines. There is plenty of exploration you can do when looking at the individual starfighters cannon in developing titles for those ships.

If they did an entire TIE v XWing squad like that... I'd be thrilled.

I think a simple title can make them go a long way. Something like Fel's Wrath ability. They dont leave the battlefield until the end of the round, that way they always get a shot. This will beef up the initial swarm joust quite a bit.

For those who think the TIE is fine as is.... besides topping out left over points, how are using them to effect? Can you counter a YWing TLT x4 list using a TIE list? Or triple Defenders?

I'm not being snarky, I genuinely want to use my TIEs, but am finding them unable to crack these two lists and they are a local staple for sure.

The problem with making any two attack ship any better on attacks, is that they will utterly destroy all the lower agility ships in this game, which they already can do good against already. Not to mention if they get too good it means there's no reason to spend more on a 3 attack ship.

I think tie's at least are fine as is. They are the cheapest ship in the game (besides the z-95). Have a decent dial, can barrel roll, and 3 hull at 3 agilty isn't horrible for the price. Not to mention as others have said that they have several great pilot abilities as well.

Playing that pipe dream "if FFG ever let me make a card" game in my head. One card that would validate swarms again...

Modification: Flight Leader Comms

side 1: if you have 5 or more of the same ship in a squadron, while attacking a target shot at this phase by a friendly ship, all friendly ships gain 1 extra die when using primaries. You may flip this card at the end of the combat phase

side 2: if you have 5 or more of the same ship in a squadron, all friendly ships gain an extra green die while defending if the attacker is in arc and within range 3 of a friendly ship. You may flip this card at the end of the combat phase

this is a card assigned to a given ship, so it certainly won't last all game... and side 1 won't benefit the first shot and it's pretty rare to get more than three ships on another... So that's 2 dice a turn most likely. Both sides are conditional and reward good flying, not just handing out bonuses

I'm sure there's a quicker way to say both, apologies

6 hours ago, Punning Pundit said:

I've shared this idea before, but I think it is worth mentioning again:

Holy textwall Batman. You actually want that for the A-Wing, which is 15 points of toothless.

This is the only title you will ever want for the TIE Fighter

Movie TIE Fighter (-3)
All damage cards are dealt faceup.

That way you can also use up the entire damage deck in a game

20 minutes ago, Lobokai said:

Playing that pipe dream "if FFG ever let me make a card" game in my head. One card that would validate swarms again...

Modification: Flight Leader Comms

side 1: if you have 5 or more of the same ship in a squadron, while attacking a target shot at this phase by a friendly ship, all friendly ships gain 1 extra die when using primaries. You may flip this card at the end of the combat phase

side 2: if you have 5 or more of the same ship in a squadron, all friendly ships gain an extra green die while defending if the attacker is in arc and within range 3 of a friendly ship. You may flip this card at the end of the combat phase

this is a card assigned to a given ship, so it certainly won't last all game... and side 1 won't benefit the first shot and it's pretty rare to get more than three ships on another... So that's 2 dice a turn most likely. Both sides are conditional and reward good flying, not just handing out bonuses

I'm sure there's a quicker way to say both, apologies

I've given this problem a _lot_ of thought (and I've written about it on these forums. ), and here's what I've come up with:

Anything that makes ships more resistant to burst damage will only further marginalize 2 dice attacks. Similarly: anything that creates more burst damage (IE: adding more red dice) creates pressure to have highly defensive ships- which marginalizes 2 dice attacks.

Your solution, which I do like conceptually, effectively turns each part of a swarm into a mini fel or Whisper. That puts pressure to only bring ships that can reliably punch through 4 or 5 green dice. If you can do that, you you potentially one shot a B-Wing. That's _rough_.

In my mind, the trick is to make 2 die attacks themselves reliable. If that starts to happen, B-Wings, Y-Wings, and maybe even Punishers start being able to survive long enough to be useful again.

7 minutes ago, Lampyridae said:

This is the only title you will ever want for the TIE Fighter

Movie TIE Fighter (-3)
All damage cards are dealt faceup.

That way you can also use up the entire damage deck in a game

11 TIE Fighters on the map at once would be hilarious. Possibly even great. And would certainly give lots of reasons to bring Assault Missiles to a match.