Hi all, I might actually be able to make it to a regional this year so I got to thinking, which can sometime be a bad thing, and I started worrying.

Are there any major rules that are mandatory in tournaments that kind of get glossed over in casual play (I've played in a lot of tournaments locally but we tend to have to act much more casually about any discrepancies or player habits)?

I know you are allowed to pre-measure everything right (weapon ranges, maneuvers as long as you don't lock the tool in etc...)? Any other pitfalls I may want to avoid?

2 minutes ago, ImpStarDeuces said:

Hi all, I might actually be able to make it to a regional this year so I got to thinking, which can sometime be a bad thing, and I started worrying.

Are there any major rules that are mandatory in tournaments that kind of get glossed over in casual play (I've played in a lot of tournaments locally but we tend to have to act much more casually about any discrepancies or player habits)?

I know you are allowed to pre-measure everything right (weapon ranges, maneuvers as long as you don't lock the tool in etc...)? Any other pitfalls I may want to avoid?

Not quite.

You can Pre-measure with the Range/Distance ruler, at any time, as long as you are not interrupting or slowing down your opponent.

The Maneuver tool, however. You cannot pick that up until you've got a ship that is about to perform its maneuver... Then you can manipulate it and place it on the tabletop to see, without locking it in - but the intention with that is that it is only used for the shiip that is maneuvering.

- Can only be used while maneuvering is a tournament rule

- Can only be used for the ship that is maneuvering is an FAQ I believe (but it may just be advice)

Kind of tough to answer, because different areas gloss over different things in my experience.

On the point of the pre-measuring, though: you can only pull out your man tool during the Determine Course Step, which, significantly, is after you'd decided wherever to use or bank your nav dial. And also after you've attacked.

I usually try and get a shower in no longer than 2 hours in advance of my first match so as not to distract my opponents with strange bodily odors.

1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:

- Can only be used for the ship that is maneuvering is an FAQ I believe (but it may just be advice)

Probably sage advice. Better to err on the side of caution. I remember in the beginning people were foaming at the mouth about pre-measuring and re-rolling re-rolls.

Something else to note is you can't use 2+ tools when pre-measuring, and that does include "fake" tools like putting your finger down somewhere and measuring from that. One tool at a time. You can use the maneuver tool (while setting a course), figure out where you'd end, remove the maneuver tool, eyeball that space, and then measure range from that rough space. That's fine (if not 100% accurate).

I'd also mention that I see some people play very "loose" with squadrons, where they determine roughly where the squadron can move and then drop it in a vague area and then measure to distance 1 of things and then kind of shimmy it into position (for example, so it's at distance 1 of a target but not at distance 1 of an Escort squadron). That's illegal. You can premeasure at distance 1 of numerous things, eyeball that spot, then drop your squadron there, but once it's dropped, it's dropped.

This was an adjustment for me going from casual to competitive: don't forget to do stuff like spend command tokens or deploy an odd squadron. In my experience many players are fine with that kind of minor take-backsies, but they're definitely not required to allow it.

2 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

Something else to note is you can't use 2+ tools when pre-measuring, and that does include "fake" tools like putting your finger down somewhere and measuring from that. One tool at a time. You can use the maneuver tool (while setting a course), figure out where you'd end, remove the maneuver tool, eyeball that space, and then measure range from that rough space. That's fine (if not 100% accurate).

I'd also mention that I see some people play very "loose" with squadrons, where they determine roughly where the squadron can move and then drop it in a vague area and then measure to distance 1 of things and then kind of shimmy it into position (for example, so it's at distance 1 of a target but not at distance 1 of an Escort squadron). That's illegal. You can premeasure at distance 1 of numerous things, eyeball that spot, then drop your squadron there, but once it's dropped, it's dropped.

Premeasuring for range, then stating " I want Soontir just engaged with Jan but NOT that Xwing" is not illegal.

1 minute ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

Premeasuring for range, then stating " I want Soontir just engaged with Jan but NOT that Xwing" is not illegal.

It's a little bit grey, but it's... light grey. I've never seen anyone enforce it like that, certainly.

1 minute ago, Ardaedhel said:

It's a little bit grey, but it's... light grey. I've never seen anyone enforce it like that, certainly.

I honestly don't mind if there's agreement. "Hey it looks to me like I can engage X but not Y. Would you agree?" "Yep." "Okay, I'd like to move that way." "Sure."

But I asked FFG specifically about if the finagling or any kind of situations like the one above were allowed back in wave... 2? or 4? The response was premeasure all you like, but once the squadron is dropped, it's dropped. You're welcome to work out a less anxiety-inducing arrangement with your opponent, but that needs to be discussed and not assumed.

1 minute ago, Snipafist said:

I honestly don't mind if there's agreement. "Hey it looks to me like I can engage X but not Y. Would you agree?" "Yep." "Okay, I'd like to move that way." "Sure."

But I asked FFG specifically about if the finagling or any kind of situations like the one above were allowed back in wave... 2? or 4? The response was premeasure all you like, but once the squadron is dropped, it's dropped. You're welcome to work out a less anxiety-inducing arrangement with your opponent, but that needs to be discussed and not assumed.

I don't remember the sources, but I know this is one of those things we've gotten conflicting answers on in the past. Everywhere I've played, the strictest we've played was chess-style: once your fingers are off the piece, it's set.

You're right that if you're not familiar with enforcement practices or your opponent, it's not unwise to clarify this.

7 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

I'd also mention that I see some people play very "loose" with squadrons, where they determine roughly where the squadron can move and then drop it in a vague area and then measure to distance 1 of things and then kind of shimmy it into position (for example, so it's at distance 1 of a target but not at distance 1 of an Escort squadron). That's illegal. You can premeasure at distance 1 of numerous things, eyeball that spot, then drop your squadron there, but once it's dropped, it's dropped.

So I understand how annoyed that a light squadron user may get at squadron heavy users for doing this, and they are technically right. However, for the sake of speed, allowing an opponent to place the squadron exactly as they intended (as long as the spot can actually be reached) is a far superior way to play than forcing them to premeasure and eyeball everything. That would take forever, and it would be partly your fault (not you personally, Snipes) for being a rules lawyer and forcing them to do that.

I see no problem with letting them readjust minorly because they brought a certain makeup of squad combos that they intended to use a certain way with a certain strategy in mind. I want to beat their tactics with my own tactics, at their best, and not with rules lawyering.

Theres also the workaround of picking up the squadron, howevering it over the general landing spot and measuring all the "distance 1s" from there before placing it down and legally locking in the position. That is not against the rules (but it's also not in the rules).

I think the moral of this is communication. You have to communicate with your opponent throughout the game. When you do, usually there are few problems at all in competition, even at the Worlds level.

One thing you do have to be prepared for is the gamer that is well within his/her right to deny you a missed opportunity. Armada players are notorious for being gracious. However you will run into players that never allow you that engineering token when you missed it upon activation. It is no problem becasue they are right!

My advice:

1- Inform your opponent you are a little green at the game. Most people I've run into are absolutely willing to help a new guy with rules. Hey, we all forget. And as long as you can take criticism, you'll know it's not a hostile comment, and only a reminder of the rules.

2- Announce your intensions. This is specifically useful for fighters as noted above.

3- Relax. Just think things through because that's how you forget things like tokens, order of use, and the like.

2 minutes ago, Stasy said:

3- Relax. Just think things through because that's how you forget things like tokens, order of use, and the like.

This. So much this.

We have a player that I won't name (Moodswing5537) that finally friggin relaxed in a tournament. Guess what? Won it. A Regional too! We all discussed how much fun he seemed to be having and he agreed that it was a key to his success.

I think this player(Moodswing5537) always plays better when they have the happy face vs. the sad face.

Play with a happy face.

Don't play with a sad face.

I think the most important thing is just play in good faith. Most people will be pretty gracious with the rules lawyering, and even moreso if you're upfront about being inexperienced at tourney play and you reciprocate in kind.

I find that in almost all cases, my tourney games are no different from casual games. I'll often find myself talking through options with opponents, helping then evaluate optimal maneuvers, or whatever. We're all there to push around toy spaceships and make pew pew sounds with other cool guys, after all. You can't take that too seriously.

7 minutes ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

This. So much this.

We have a player that I won't name (Moodswing5537) that finally friggin relaxed in a tournament. Guess what? Won it. A Regional too! We all discussed how much fun he seemed to be having and he agreed that it was a key to his success.

I think this player(Moodswing5537) always plays better when they have the happy face vs. the sad face.

Play with a happy face.

Don't play with a sad face.

I know that guy. He can be a real *****. But I agree. Relaxing and realizing that it's moving plastic ships around and that it's supposed to be fun will make it so.

One thing I can say is, if you think a rule isn't being used correctly, ask a judge. A LOT of folks think their interpretations are correct, but it's the Judge that makes the ultimate decision. It's not mean or rude to ask either. My first tourney, I just accepted that my opponent knew the rules better than I did, and accepted what he said. I found out we were measuring wrong the entire time for LoS. If you are unsure, get a ruling. And have fun!

1 minute ago, Parkdaddy said:

So I understand how annoyed that a light squadron user may get at squadron heavy users for doing this, and they are technically right. However, for the sake of speed, allowing an opponent to place the squadron exactly as they intended (as long as the spot can actually be reached) is a far superior way to play than forcing them to premeasure and eyeball everything. That would take forever, and it would be partly your fault (not you personally, Snipes) for being a rules lawyer and forcing them to do that.

I see no problem with letting them readjust minorly because they brought a certain makeup of squad combos that they intended to use a certain way with a certain strategy in mind. I want to beat their tactics with my own tactics, at their best, and not with rules lawyering.

Theres also the workaround of picking up the squadron, howevering it over the general landing spot and measuring all the "distance 1s" from there before placing it down and legally locking in the position. That is not against the rules (but it's also not in the rules).

The thing is quite simply that you can't know for sure what the other person thinks is acceptable. I honestly don't mind if both players are okay with a more casual method of moving squadrons (it's a lot less hassle for me, so I appreciate it), but I assume we're using the "super picky" default setting unless we agree otherwise.

The problem with picking up a squadron and hovering it while you move it and measure distance 1 is you're breaking the two-tool rule. You need to have a distance ruler on the table to determine where the squadron can go and then you'd be using a second distance ruler to determine distance 1. You should not be able to determine movement after removing the tool, so there's no way to get around that by saying you know "basically" where the squadron can go.

I want to make it clear that I'm not a horrible nightmare opponent who refuses to do anything but play by the least fun "no shortcuts" version of the rules, but the only thing you can assume about your opponent and you is you both will follow the rules written in the rulebook. If you want to make some common sense shortcuts through the unfun parts of moving squadrons, that's absolutely fine and absolutely understandable, but you need to ask your opponent how he wants to handle it so you're both on the same page and one of you isn't cheating accidentally because your definition of what's okay doesn't match his or vice versa.

4 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

We're all there to push around toy spaceships and make pew pew sounds with other cool guys, after all. You can't take that too seriously.

Exactly. I'd really like to go to worlds, but this is why I'm having a hard time justifying spending $400 on a plane ticket, plus hotel, entry fee, transportation, etc.

Its because you're justifying the wrong thing.

You're paying the $400 for the bragging rights of saying... "I WENT AND PLAYED AT THE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS."

The fact that you're playing with toy spaceships making pew pew sounds is a pleasant perk to the situation.

My advice is have all the cards not proxies or copies. For regionals and above you have to have an actual FFG card from the ship or an OP kit.

@ImpStarDeuces just go to the event and don't worry! It'll be fun!

@everyone else, this is what happens when we start threads about how this guy or that guy ticked you off for <insert behavior> at a tournament.

Come to tournaments! They're great and tournament players are a generally chill bunch who just like to play Armada. The best thing you can do to prepare for a tourney is know how to play before you get there, but it's still okay if you have only played a couple games! Just show up and have fun.

A good practice if you know that a measurement is going to be very close and very impactful is to (broken record here) communicate it with your opponent. Sometimes you think something is in/out of range when you premeasure, and a few activations when you look back, it's different. It's annoying to realize that one of the little bumps or jostles that occur during play has suddenly swung the game significantly, but the rules say to absorb those minor imprecisions, including when they turn out to be not so minor. Unless it's been verbalized otherwise, both players have to abide by how things stand in the moment, not by some headcanon of how it was before ol' fatfingers across the table knocked something a millimeter into black-dice range.

So, the answer is to make your move, premeasure, and then let your opponent know what the results of that premeasure are. "It looks like when you activate, I won't be in your side arc." "Oh really? Yeah, looks like you're right." "Okay, cool." That way, if things get bumped, you've already agreed to the board state.

@ImpStarDeuces

Here are some pointers for regionals

1.) Have Fun. You most likely will get a CR90A card or 2 and that's awesome just for showing up.

2.) Re-familiarize yourself with the rules, FAQ, tournament document, Corellian Campaign rules for outposts n such.

3.) Make sure you have all the upgrade cards, ships, dice, tokens, etc you need for the day. If you forgot something ASK. Most of the time someone will let you borrow something, but make sure YOU RETURN IT. Its awesome when you lend something out to someone and then they bring it back to you before you have to hound them.

4.) Poop

5.) Shower (in that exact order

6.) Eat a decent breakfast

7.) give yourself plenty of time to get the event, try to show up 30 minutes before first round start so you can get your stuff out and fleets filled out.

8.) Revisit point 1

Seriously man, go, have fun. I have had a blast at all 3 regionals I've attended and the only game I've won was a bye. You will meet some awesome dudes, learn a lot of new stuff and honestly don't be afraid to ask questions if you are unsure.

On 2/13/2017 at 10:19 AM, Ardaedhel said:

Kind of tough to answer, because different areas gloss over different things in my experience.

On the point of the pre-measuring, though: you can only pull out your man tool during the Determine Course Step, which, significantly, is after you'd decided wherever to use or bank your nav dial. And also after you've attacked.

I really hope no one I ever play against pulls out his man tool...