I'm sure the idea has come up before in the community but I really wish FFG would pursue this. Upgrade cards are my least favorite part of the game and that is due mainly to how they are acquired. I know each ship is billed as an "expansion", but I would rather just buy ships by themselves and choose the cards I want separately (which I admit to having done for my last 3 X-wing expenditures). One of the reasons for this is the shear number of cards you accumulate! I don't want to spend money on binders to organize my 300 upgrade cards, I want to buy more ships!

All that to say I wish FFG would open up a print on demand option for upgrade cards as well as pilot cards and their cardboard bases (can't think of the name of those things right now). They have offered print on demand before, the 40k Space Hulk card game had that option for the Dark Angels expansion as I recall. Anyway, I think this would make tourney, casual, and new players all happy and put some money in FFG's pocket for little cost to them. This would even allow them to offer all the cards with errata fixes without having to re-release them in expansions (like the Heavy Scyk in the new C-Roc box), and let them put out new pilots. Obviously the case might be that, even with people splitting up boxes and selling cards and ships separately on ebay, that the current model of selling upgrade cards only in the expansions is more lucrative than offering on demand. But sure, Imperial Raiders sell out faster than possibly any expansion in X-wing history (currently awaiting re-print... again), but are the majority of those getting snapped up by ebay sellers so they can make $40 off of Palp really good for the game? Right now that is a service to players who don't want to buy the $100 Raider, ridiculous as paying $40 for a single upgrade is! This isn't Magic for goodness sakes!

Here is what I would like to see or at least something akin to it:

$1 per upgrade or pilot card ($0.50 would be great per card but I'm being realistic)

$2 per pilot cardboard base

$3 shipping (cost would increase if you buy a ton of cards obviously)

Personally, I would prefer if FFG had released the upgrade cards for each wave release in a separate pack. Similar to the way they sell extra dice.

2 minutes ago, hey_yu said:

Personally, I would prefer if FFG had released the upgrade cards for each wave release in a separate pack. Similar to the way they sell extra dice.

Not a bad idea. If they put 2-3 copies of each card from the wave in a pack I'd be willing to pay $10 for it.

I'm afraid you going to have to deal with the status quo, FFG's business model typically has the most desirable upgrade cards in the wave pocketed in with the typically worst ship of the wave (not always but you get the idea)

I basically just paid the equivalent of $50USD from my local game store (the sad side effect of living in the outer rim) for a Kylo Ren crew card that came with a shuttle I didn’t want. Sure I might use it at some point but I'm just not interested in the ship.

This is sadly the way that FFG will continue to operate, and why wouldn’t they, X-wing has virtually become the biggest minis game on the market why would the change a winning (money making) formula.

7 minutes ago, Mace Windu said:

This is sadly the way that FFG will continue to operate, and why wouldn’t they, X-wing has virtually become the biggest minis game on the market why would the change a winning (money making) formula.

I mean, it's not like they're interested in staying in business or anything. It's also not like their staying in business is dependent upon their product, y'know, selling or anything like that. That would just be silly.

"A main part of our product is really desirable. Let's sell it for below cost price in a manner that undercuts our entire business model!"

While not-Samuel-Jackson has hit the nail on the head on why this won't happen, his reasoning is still somewhat incorrect. Sure the entire format doesn't always come out with a Top meta ship from the box and there is a lot of interdependency in terms of upgrades and pilot combinations (TIE Interceptor and PTL being the most obvious one). However while some of the more disgruntled players see it as a cheap cash grab I see it more as a necessity with a game as accessible as X-wing. i always say if you are on a budget and just starting to get in don't just pick a single faction but instead pick two factions. One primary and one secondary. Because everything is practically assembled and painted you don't need to stick to one faction. Also given the cost of a meta game it still is cheaper than other miniature games in the market. At least they keep the expansion a consistent set and not some randomized BS like $tar War$ Destiny where that one card you need might not be in box at your LFGS.

I was literally just creating an account to ask if there is anywhere that sells cards separate. I'm surprised it's not a thing. I was gifted a falcon when I first started playing and now I want the upgrade cards and pilot cards that go with HoR but I do not necessarily want to buy another falcon. I'd think you are not necessarily losing money by selling them in a package like you do pokemon cards. But I do get them putting the best cards on the worst ships. Guess I can always look on ebay or something,

21 minutes ago, DR4CO said:

I mean, it's not like they're interested in staying in business or anything. It's also not like their staying in business is dependent upon their product, y'know, selling or anything like that. That would just be silly.

I know right, it's not like *cough*Warhammer*cough* they are a market leader in their style of game where they sell new units that you need to buy to compete because they want you to keep spending money? I'm sure there won't be another new game come out in a few years with a strong IP that massively overtakes them leaving them scrambling to rebuild their game with a new rules base that obsoletes their entire previous range further alienating they existing player base?

Na that would never happen……

I am of course being slightly dramatic on the whole matter

If you're playing official events, then you have to pay to get what you want. It is what it is.

If you only play casually with friends, just proxy cards. We do it all the time in my circle of friends, often as a way to field test how we like something before spending the money on extra ships just to get the cards.

It's still cheaper to buy an entire wave, than to even just buy the codex and rule books for a 40k for a single faction, nevermind the actual minis and paints.

Also, get this - and I know this is an out-there concept, but work with me here; you don't have to buy everything. Seriously. That's a thing. I bought at least one of everything right up until Wave 9. That wave just didn't float my boat. I ended up getting an /sf, and eventually an Arc (several months later), but I'm still sans Shadowcaster or Protectorate. This wave, I've picked up a three Strikers because they're insanely good fun to fly, but I have yet to spend a penny on the rest because I'm not sure I actually need any of it. I'm happy with that. I don't have all the cards, sure, but I can work around that with the hundreds of other options, and thousands of combinations.

Besides. If you really want individual cards, there's a small, independent website that may interest you. It's called eBay.

Don't think they could even if they wanted too, because of the Mouse.

23 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

If you're playing official events, then you have to pay to get what you want. It is what it is.

If you only play casually with friends, just proxy cards. We do it all the time in my circle of friends, often as a way to field test how we like something before spending the money on extra ships just to get the cards.

This is all I've been doing the last 2 months. I just print a list off of Squadron Builder and bring that. Beats the hassle of getting all the cards out and I can actually experiment with cards I don't own. I do have to give a big thank you to FFG for letting things like Squadron Builder exist. Games Workshop never allowed that sort of thing (gaming aids from the community) when I was playing 40k and I doubt they have softened their stance in the last 4 years.

1 hour ago, Mace Windu said:

This is sadly the way that FFG will continue to operate, and why wouldn’t they, X-wing has virtually become the biggest minis game on the market why would the change a winning (money making) formula.

Why? Because it turns a lot of people off, including me. I played MTG and I don't like proxying any cards there because they are relatively reasonable to acquire. Here in X-Wing, they PURPOSELY make it difficult for us, and that makes me out of principle refuse to buy expansions just for cards (especially since I play only casually). I mean, seriously... how many pennies does it cost them to include more upgrade cards in an expansion? I may love this game, but this marketing strategy makes me NEVER want to buy from FFG again. It's just dirty.

Now, if they actually sold upgrade packs, I would seriously consider buying a real TIE/X1 title for my Darth Vader.

1 hour ago, Sencho said:

This is all I've been doing the last 2 months.

Yup. Using a print-out instead of cards cuts down your setup and teardown time significantly. If you aren't going to tournaments, which I'm not, then why bother with cards?

15 minutes ago, f0rbiddenc00kie said:

Why? Because it turns a lot of people off, including me. I played MTG and I don't like proxying any cards there because they are relatively reasonable to acquire. Here in X-Wing, they PURPOSELY make it difficult for us, and that makes me out of principle refuse to buy expansions just for cards (especially since I play only casually). I mean, seriously... how many pennies does it cost them to include more upgrade cards in an expansion? I may love this game, but this marketing strategy makes me NEVER want to buy from FFG again. It's just dirty.

Now, if they actually sold upgrade packs, I would seriously consider buying a real TIE/X1 title for my Darth Vader.

Don’t get me wrong, I'm totally in agreement that (in my opinion) its morally questionable to distribute upgrades in their product like this.

Having said that you and likeminded individuals that refuse to buy expansions just for upgrades they want/need are in a minority if the sales figures are to be believed, and that for every one person like yourself that refuses to buy expansions for cards there are several other players that ARE willing to pay.

At the end of the day, the business model sells the game, which in turn justifies its own existence to spend capital investment to design and manufacture more product which keeps the game alive. For that I am grateful and do actually spend my money on a game that I love, nothing is every perfect for everyone's tastes and desires but that’s just the way life is.

These topics come up fairly regularly, and people always, IMO, misunderstand the cost structure at FFG. The value in the cards is not in the paper and ink it costs to print them. It's not even in the art that they commission and pay for. It's in the time and effort taken to design, test and balance the cards. But that is extremely hard to justify to the consumer - that's why there has to be a ship in every blister sold.

The classic example here is autothrusters coming with the Starviper. That was a card designed with the TIE Interceptor in mind, but also one that affected tonnes of other ships. It needed a lot of careful designing and playtesting as a result - so it's a high cost card. To recoup some of that cost, they put it in the Starviper - a "medium sized" expansion that most game stores sell for $30-$36 AUD instead of the $20-$25 AUD that more standard small base blisters sell for.

Imagine trying to account for that extra cost with a print on demand model. Even assuming it was profitable to issue cards that way, they would have to charge more for the most extensively tested cards. And which cards are those? The "fix" cards. All they'd get are threads about how FFG are money grubbing bastards because they charge 300% more for cards people really need (£3 instead of $1).

They're damned either way, so they might as well go for the model that works for them. And if people end up with ships they don't think they need, well, maybe they'll do something really crazy like, I dunno, play with them.

11 hours ago, MacchuWA said:

The classic example here is autothrusters coming with the Starviper. That was a card designed with the TIE Interceptor in mind, but also one that affected tonnes of other ships. It needed a lot of careful designing and playtesting as a result - so it's a high cost card.

You are right in highlighting the costs of development for upgrade cards. The cost of the physical card vs development is obviously not equal. I'm not sure though that some cards cost a drastic amount more to play test that it's monetary value would actually be greater than any other. Sure, some cards require more testing, but every card goes through careful designing (hopefully). Even a seemingly simple upgrade card can break the game if it combos with something else in unintended ways so I really don't think Palp or Autothrusters actually cost more in development over other cards to place a higher money value on them in a print on demand or upgrade "booster" pack model.

15 hours ago, f0rbiddenc00kie said:

I may love this game, but this marketing strategy makes me NEVER want to buy from FFG again.

That's too bad, because you don't have enough impact to actually matter. If enough people thought like you did, then FFG would most likely change how things work. But seeing how X-Wing is still selling like mad and makes FFG a ton money then they have no reason to change. There's no doubt that X-Wing subsidizes a lot of other FFG products. The number of games they've released since X-Wing is pretty telling, games they would of never bothered with if they didn't have such a stable seller to pad the bottom line.

But the good news is that unless you're playing at a Store Championship or some other official event, you have lots of options to get the upgrades you want without spending a ton of money.

18 minutes ago, Sencho said:

You are right in highlighting the costs of development for upgrade cards. The cost of the physical card vs development is obviously not equal. I'm not sure though that some cards cost a drastic amount more to play test that it's monetary value would actually be greater than any other. Sure, some cards require more testing, but every card goes through careful designing (hopefully). Even a seemingly simple upgrade card can break the game if it combos with something else in unintended ways so I really don't think Palp or Autothrusters actually cost more in development over other cards to place a higher money value on them in a print on demand or upgrade "booster" pack model.

You're not really au fait with how the concept of "print on demand" works, are you? That model is so wildly out of the useful spectrum for even the system you're suggesting, nevermind an actual business model with any degree of sense or self support, that it doesn't even bear considering.

To be fair, it doesn't sound like you even entirely understand how R&D for a game takes place, or even the basics of card printing. There's quite a bit of cost behind both that you seem unwilling to factor into your crusade for cheap upgrade cards. However, I will - once again - direct you toward that wonderful little, relatively unknown site called eBay; your single cards await.

They do not offer print on demand for this kind of thing for any of their products so I very much doubt there is any probability of it.

I have at least one of every ship, and multiples of many, so they have not made a card for this game that I don't have, but it is exceedingly rare that they ever come out of the binder. I use a squad building list app and its much faster setting up and a lot less clutter. Now, on those rare occasions when I do have to drag all that stuff out, it's such a pain. I only pull it out when I have to, and that's really only at tournaments, which are rare for me.

1 hour ago, Darthfish said:

I only pull it out when I have to, and that's really only at tournaments, which are rare for me.

Hey now! Keep it in your trousers...

Despite the hassle, I still find myself bringing my binder full of cards when I go play at the game stores, "Just in case..." But realistically, no one is going to give me any guff where I play for playing from a printed list vs. using the real deal.

It probably won't happen with X-wing because of licensing, but Print On Demand would certainly give players flexibility and even out the play field.

I do dislike ffgs business model a lot, but I can understand the need to sell ships with upgrades.

On the other hand, what really bothers me is having to buy ships from another faction to get the cards you need, when playing only one of those. I do play Rebel only, I own 40+ ships, and no, I don't find it OK that I would have to buy other faction ships for cards. At least, if you buy all ships ftom one faction, you should get all the cards (except gor faction specifics).

Right now, to have correct options for an Awing, I would need a Starviper (AT) , a Kihraxz (crack shot) a TIE fo (juke). Considering how much money I put in rebel ships, that's not gonna happen and makes me a little mad.

I started a thread like this about the Rebel Transport Astromech cards. If they put out a deck of upgrade cards, I would buy that in an INSTANT. I am really only interested in Rebel ships and I don't like the idea of buying more than I want to play the figures I did want the best way possible.