Can Brute Strength be used after both actions have been used? I.e Use both actions to gain and use 8 Movement points. Then try to interact using brute strength. I say this is not possible but am being argued against.
Can you guys tell me how Brute Strength works and why?
No, the card says:
"Exhaust this card when you would perform a interact..."
Performing an interact uses an action, replace the above text with:
"Exhaust this card when you would [use an action]..."
If you've used your 2 actions, you can no longer do this.
Unless there is a mission rule to perform an interact in some other way, you can argue that Onar has already spent an action for the Interact action to perform an interact. Brute Strength would then give the action (point) back, if successful. But this does not match the wording.
Brute Strength says "without using an action". The wording implies that you have not yet spent the action when you are exhausting Brute Strength. Thus you can use Brute Strength even when you have spent both actions, and be able to perform the interact without an action if the attribute test is successful.
Also, why use the wording "when you would perform an interact" if the action was needed? Why not use similar wording to Mak's Expertise?
Edited by a1bert
13 hours ago, a1bert said:Unless there is a mission rule to perform an interact in some other way, you can argue that Onar has already spent an action for the Interact action to perform an interact. Brute Strength would then give the action (point) back, if successful. But this does not match the wording.
Brute Strength says "without using an action". The wording implies that you have not yet spent the action when you are exhausting Brute Strength. Thus you can use Brute Strength even when you have spent both actions, and be able to perform the interact without an action if the attribute test is successful.Also, why use the wording "when you would perform an interact" if the action was needed? Why not use similar wording to Mak's Expertise?
But "a figure ends its activation after performing both of its actions and spending its remaining movement points" (page 3, activation), so you couldn't play Brute Strength after spending 2 action points. And, why do you suppose that you can perform an action without action points remaining?
Edited by gran_orco48 minutes ago, gran_orco said:But "a figure ends its activation after performing both of its actions and spending its remaining movement points" (page 3, activation), so you couldn't play Brute Strength after spending 2 action points.
A figure chooses when to end its activation. Spending both actions and spending remaining movement points does not automatically end the activation. (The part you quote gives a wrong impression, but it still says "a figure ends its activation", not "the activation ends after..".)
RRG, Abilities said:An ability that can be used 'during your activation' can be used before or after performing an action during an activation. It cannot be used while resolving an action.
After performing both actions, even when the hero has no movement points left in the movement point pool, the hero can still suffer strain to gain moment points and use any other during your activation abilities.
QuoteWhy do you say that you spent an action after the effect, and not before?
I'm saying the probable intent of Brute Force timing is "When you would perform the Interact action...". If the attribute test succeeds, you can perform it without spending an action. If it fails, you need to spend an action, or forfit the Interact if you don't have actions left to spend.
Anyway, that's only my opinion.
Edited by a1bert
I think Interact works the same way as Attack. Normally you have to spend an action to attack, but there are many situations where you can perform attacks without spending an action. It's the same with interact - you can spend an action to interact, but an interact is not inherently an action. It's a thing you can do, that can be done by spending an action or by some other effect. So I think you can say - "I'm going to try to perform an interact, even though I have no actions left." and then see if you are able to.
That's my interpretation.
Unfortunately I don't think its possible to use Brute Strength without an action left. The only ways to perform an interact are either as an action, or if a game effect forces it to occur. The timing on Brute Strength is odd, specifying, "use when you would perform an interact". As far as I can see, you "would" only perform an interact if you met the conditions for doing so (aka having an action available, or a game effect forcing it to occur). Now the weird part of this timing, is that implies you are not locked into the interact on failure. The word "would" is clearly different from "when", and does not specify the interact is in progress when the test is taken.
I imagine if it was to allow an interact even without actions remaining, it would use a similar style of text to Loku's Scouting Report. Like: "Exhaust, test, if successful, you may interact once this activation without an action". If it was designed to not allow back-out on failure, I imagine it would simply read "use when you perform an interact".
I finally got an answer back on this:
QuoteYou would need to start the interact with an action normally, then you would test to see if you get an action refund. You would not be able to start a new interact if you had previously spent both actions.Hope that helps!
If you try to interact for free, but the check fails, can you then decide not to interact at all?
Brute Strength is exhausted, so you couldn't abuse this for repeated tests.
Like grabbing a crate is great for free, but might not be worth it if it costs and action.
I assume that since you have triggered the test for Brute Strength, you have already committed to the Interact whether you pass or fail the test?
You have already spent the action to interact. And you cannot voluntarily partially perform abilities. You perform as much as you can.