From that unboxing report it would seem the game comes with one Command Dial per unit... won't that limit your options with the Spearmen and Reanimates? You get 4 trays of each, potentially letting you field a 4 tray unit or two 2-tray units... but with just one Command Dial you can't do both.

I obviously haven't played the game yet and have no idea if it's a legitimate move to field a larger number of smaller formations vs. fewer but larger formations, but was curious. Maybe the infantry expansions could include an extra dial?

The infantry expansions come with trays as you can see here , the starter is probably supposed to play the way it is hence no extra dials and it remains to be seen if 2 tray undead archer unit is something you would want to use.

I didn't mean those infantry command expansions, I meant what I presume will be eventual "Spearmen" and "Reanimate" expansions that add more of those units to your army. Adding an extra command dial to those would allow players to field more, smaller formations of basic infantry.

17 minutes ago, Daverman said:

I didn't mean those infantry command expansions, I meant what I presume will be eventual "Spearmen" and "Reanimate" expansions that add more of those units to your army. Adding an extra command dial to those would allow players to field more, smaller formations of basic infantry.

I know and if you would have taken the time to read the link you would have seen that the infantry command expansions have no dial as they can not be used on their own but the Oathsworn Cavalry and the Reanimated Archers also seen in that article come with a dial and are the size of the smallest fieldable unit. So yes the expansions will have dials and they will need that because we will be seeing new units that were not included in the starter and each you might want to field multiples of one unit.

8 minutes ago, Iceeagle85 said:

I know and if you would have taken the time to read the link you would have seen that the infantry command expansions have no dial

No reason to get snippy, I've read all the news posts about this game.

9 minutes ago, Iceeagle85 said:

Oathsworn Cavalry and the Reanimated Archers also seen in that article come with a dial and are the size of the smallest fieldable unit.

That's great, having an amount of dials equal to the total amount of possible, fieldable units is what I'm concerned about... for the Spearmen and Reanimates. Right now the Core set doesn't. If, when the Spearmen and Reanimate expansions come out, they're 2-tray expansions like the cavalry and archers, 1 dial would be great. If they're 4-tray expansions to mirror what's in the core set I hope they come with an "extra" dial so you'll have the option to break units down into 2 tray formations.

I suppose that would be a good inclusion but I am not sure why you would want to field multiple 2 tray units of spearmen or reanimates, 8 health on a front line unit seems very meh-tastic. I understand the desire for the additional tray as kind of a principle matter, but I don't necessarily see the practical applications. I mean maybe you could have a 2 tray in front of a larger group to shield them from a head on attack, act as a tarpit then die then the large group charges over the corpses of their fallen companions?

22 minutes ago, jek said:

I suppose that would be a good inclusion but I am not sure why you would want to field multiple 2 tray units of spearmen or reanimates, 8 health on a front line unit seems very meh-tastic. I understand the desire for the additional tray as kind of a principle matter, but I don't necessarily see the practical applications. I mean maybe you could have a 2 tray in front of a larger group to shield them from a head on attack, act as a tarpit then die then the large group charges over the corpses of their fallen companions?

I could see small units being useful for certain objectives such as Demoralise Their Forces, where the small units can land effective flank attacks against units engaged to a tarpit. For Break Their Defences a higher unit count could score more points if you can keep them protected until the end. It may also be useful for Supply Raid as a grab the objectives and run strategy.

However, with points scored for destroying units there are arguments for and against small formations, which is good, as we're likely to see a combination of both, each with strategical merit.

20 minutes ago, Muz333 said:

I could see small units being useful for certain objectives such as Demoralise Their Forces, where the small units can land effective flank attacks against units engaged to a tarpit. For Break Their Defences a higher unit count could score more points if you can keep them protected until the end. It may also be useful for Supply Raid as a grab the objectives and run strategy.

However, with points scored for destroying units there are arguments for and against small formations, which is good, as we're likely to see a combination of both, each with strategical merit.

but would a 2 tray unit be worth it compared to a 2x2 tray unit I mean I just don't see the benefit of not using 2x2 as a min unit.

My best guess is that they could only fit so much cardboard in the box, and perhaps went with other tokens, terrain and such?

hopefully the dials provided will give us an entertaining set to play with while we wait for our expansion boxes

Just want to say this, because of the scaling damage caused by threat, a unit with a threat value of 1 does very little actual damage especially against targets with armor. Carrion Lancer is an exception because it racks in an impressive 3 dice, but even then until you start to increase it's threat multiplier its damage is a bit lower. So increasing a units tray ranks does protect your valuable threat bonus for a longer period of time. While a big unit does lose its rank bonus as it suffers damage; it does not lose its threat bonus.

4 hours ago, Muz333 said:

However, with points scored for destroying units there are arguments for and against small formations, which is good, as we're likely to see a combination of both, each with strategical merit.

You score points for your remaining units not units destroyed. It says so in the objectives article. So msu means more ppm if your good enough to keep them alive.

8 minutes ago, Orcdruid said:

You score points for your remaining units not units destroyed. It says so in the objectives article. So msu means more ppm if your good enough to keep them alive.

They do say that as it loses trays, it may lose point value. I wouldn't be surprised if a unit at half strength is worth half as many points. While, conjecture, I'd say it's much easier to inflict the half strength status on a rank n file with 8 total wounds compared to 16.

1 hour ago, Obscene said:

They do say that as it loses trays, it may lose point value. I wouldn't be surprised if a unit at half strength is worth half as many points. While, conjecture, I'd say it's much easier to inflict the half strength status on a rank n file with 8 total wounds compared to 16.

The way scoring works is, if I have a 2x2 unit of reanimates remaining at the end I get 26pts. even if it started as a 3x2. If i have those same 4 trays in 2 2x1 formations thats 16pts. each or 32pts. 6 points more.

6 hours ago, jek said:

I mean maybe you could have a 2 tray in front of a larger group to shield them from a head on attack, act as a tarpit then die then the large group charges over the corpses of their fallen companions?

You joke, but charging over fallen corpses was the main occupation of my Warhammer Empire army :-)

Well, actually their main occupation was falling as corpses themselves. But their secondary occupation was charging over them!

31 minutes ago, Orcdruid said:

The way scoring works is, if I have a 2x2 unit of reanimates remaining at the end I get 26pts. even if it started as a 3x2. If i have those same 4 trays in 2 2x1 formations thats 16pts. each or 32pts. 6 points more.

"To start, you gain a number of points equal to the point value of the units remaining in your army. In other words, if your opponent only manages to destroy 50 points of your 200 point army, you’ll have 150 points when scoring begins. Importantly, each unit has a range of values, based on the number of trays in the unit. If your unit has suffered attacks and reduced in size during the battle, it may be worth less points than it was at the beginning of the game. "
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/1/23/claim-your-objective/

Seems to imply that inflicting causalities on units reduces the amount of points rewarded even if total destruction isn't achieved. Also the fact that once a minor amount of damage has been achieved on a small unit formation and it's threat value is reduced, it's damage output drops so significantly, that it's ability to take points away from your opponent become minuscule.

instead of creating another thread, I would like to ask you a question regarding the dials. Let's take a good example of what I'm asking myself :

Right, see the above dial ? Good (if not, sorry). So straight to the questions :

1) Why are there different colors for a same action ? (red and yellow attack in the example) for tactical purpose ? because the only combination possible is with the hite modifier, nothing else, right ? so...

2) Why multiple actions may only have access to one modifier ? Still unit profile sheet purpose ?

Ok i'm done but I don't know how they did design those dials. I'm not that stupid to see that it is full game play purposed , but still. As per why using colors ? are they only there to help combine actions and modifier or are there other reasons ? do each color have a particular signification in terms of game play ?

Thanks mates !

The red attack has initiative 7 and can be combined with the hit (?) modifier, the yellow one has initiative 3. So I guess it's a decision of hit stronger, but later vs fast but less deadly (not sure how initiative works, but this would be my guess).

March 4 is yellow, so you cannot combine it with any modifiers. except the white thingy (not sure what that is).

12 minutes ago, costi said:

The red attack has initiative 7 and can be combined with the hit (?) modifier, the yellow one has initiative 3. So I guess it's a decision of hit stronger, but later vs fast but less deadly (not sure how initiative works, but this would be my guess).

March 4 is yellow, so you cannot combine it with any modifiers. except the white thingy (not sure what that is).

The white thing is Skills Use. They don't have a skill baseline, but they can get one through upgrades

@Obscene watch Defend The Table's video on youtube. At the end the demonstrator goes into unit scoring.

@costi initiative is lowest to highest, so yes the yellow attack at 3 is faster than the red attack at 7.

@Elrad The stances(colors) represent the unit's tactical options. For example the blue marches are the unit moving at regular(2speed) or quickstep(3speed) neither of which hinder the units ability to turn or wheel. The yellow speed 4 march however is the unit moving doubletime basically running it is harder to keep in formation while turning at this speed nor will they be ready for attack or defense at the end of it hence the lack of charge or defense up in yellow.

@Elrad I think the red is being used to indicate primary attacks, and may have one or more stances to go with them. The blue is being used for standard movement, with stances to turn and hook with speed reductions. The green is being used for strategic maneuvers, like rallying, disengaging, and shifting, with one or two boosts that usually add defense or boosts. Yellow are special maneuvers or attacks, that usually are fast initiative and do not have stances, or are morale maneuvers with stances really seem to add some dramatic differences from other units using that maneuver (carrion lancer). White seems to just be with stances, which can be combined with any color maneuver.

@Orcdruid Good Video, He mentions specifically that if you have less than the units minimum tray amount you receive zero points. So if you run 2 squads of 2 tray reanimate archers and kari inflicts even 1 wound on each squad by the end of the game they become worthless. That in of it self might make MSU an extreme liability on things that don't have high armor/wounds per a tray. He also mentions as a unit shrinks in size to its next available formation it becomes worth that many points.

@costi @Orcdruid and @Taki My bad, my bad... why was I not reading the dial completely ? ....(facepalm, facepalm, facepalm, facehammer, faceaxe...overkilled himself...) and now, it makes sense... thank you to all of you for answering !

On 2/10/2017 at 8:32 AM, jek said:

but would a 2 tray unit be worth it compared to a 2x2 tray unit I mean I just don't see the benefit of not using 2x2 as a min unit.

Using 2 2x1's means you get twice the potential damage of a 2x2, with the downside of no reroll.

@costi Initiative is determined by maneuver and stance each round. Most units have a variety of initiative orders. You start with lowest and move up in initiative. Units that are eliminated never activate (like xwing or armada). So a lot of the game is going to be staring at a unit of spearmen and thinking "Did he pick to charge on initiative 2, or did he pick to boost and attack on 7? Now, a clever man would attack on initiative 7, because he would know that only a great fool would risk losing his attack with a failed charge. I am not a great fool, so clearly I must choose the attack 7. But you must have know that I'm not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so clearly I can't choose the attack 7. But, Runewars is an FFG product, and the Spearmen Expansion is currently listed as 'On the Boat', which you know nobody really believes, as I clearly do not believe you, so I can't choose the charge 2. But you must have known I'd know the games origin, so clearly I can't choose the attack 7. You've beaten my carrion lancer, which means your exceptionally strong. You might have chosen the charge 2 and counted on your strength to save you. But you also beat my Reanimate Archers, which means you must have studied and in studying would have learned that there is a time limit on a match in this tournament, so clearly I can't choose the charge 2. YOU'VE GIVEN EVERYTHING AWAY! I know what maneuver you chose!" <Dials reveal, you charge off the board>

@drkpnthr Inconceivable!!!!!!