12 minutes ago, Kdubb said:

Wish Destiny had product so I could give it a go, lol.

I got a bunch of Destiny stuff when if first came out. It was a fun enough game but bailed on it when I realized how expensive it was going to be to play competitively.

I'll keep playing a cheap game like X-Wing.

I've been lucky so far that not a single person in my division for the vassal league has run paratanni in ANY of the games, mine or otherwise. Looking at matchups in our division on list juggler I only see one asajj at all, and it's the asajj + 2 TLT y-wings list. There's only been one manaroo so far as well (old fennaroo)

43 minutes ago, sozin said:

Yeah it makes sense, but he is so extremely squishy. Getting shot with 6 dice attacks, even with Palp and focus evade, hard to survive.

At this point it just seems like you have to take your chances no matter what. There's something out there that can screw you hard, but Jax, at least, is screwing right back.

Yeah, Jax versus Paratanni is awesome, its just that Jax versus everything else that is casually slinging out 5-7 attack dice is really painful. The Interceptor ship is hard to make work in the Escalating Red Dice game dynamics we are in.

I remember at the World's After Party this year how, when I asked Alex and Frank on why they keep adding more and more attack dice to the game, Alex dismissed these 6+ attack dice builds as corner cases that are cute but not competitive. Sadly, its clear to me now that he was wrong -- they are both easy to build and very competitive. We've got Fenn, Finn, Miranda, Swarm Leader, Nora, now, its easy to build great lists (that, as Calen noted to me this weekend, are needed to punch through Fenn/Defenders defensive shells).

3 hours ago, Biophysical said:

Is there a reason for any Imperial going to a System Open not to put Carnor Jax in a list? Aside from being generally good, it's one of the ships that really attacks both Parattanni, x7 Defenders, and to a lesser degree Dengaroo.

Sabine bombers will eat Jax's lunch, and they're one of the more popular counters.

4 hours ago, Biophysical said:

Is there a reason for any Imperial going to a System Open not to put Carnor Jax in a list? Aside from being generally good, it's one of the ships that really attacks both Parattanni, x7 Defenders, and to a lesser degree Dengaroo.

Unfortubately he is PS 8 so Fenn Rau will eat him with his target lock

On 04/03/2017 at 10:52 PM, Stay On The Leader said:

Every time they get arranged alongside a big show we see players standing up to say it's not what they want because it stacks tons of unnecessary cost and peak accomdation/travel pricing onto an entry fee that's already nowhere near justified by the prizes on offer.

And every time FFG ignore that and go ahead and organise another one in the same place. The European Championships are struggling to sell their tickets - they've been arranged at the same UK Games Expo that hosted Yavin Open last year and the poor experience of that appears (on the basis of slow ticket sales) to have turned off a HUGE number of players from going back for a second time.

For me, it is the lack of accommodation. Simply put, there is none, it's all booked.

Not only are the European Championship being hosted, there is another event and a concert all being held that weekend in Birmingham so there is nowhere to stay. For London based players, it's a two or more hour drive and not something you want to do prior to a grueling seven rounds!

On 04/03/2017 at 10:52 PM, Stay On The Leader said:

Every time they get arranged alongside a big show we see players standing up to say it's not what they want because it stacks tons of unnecessary cost and peak accomdation/travel pricing onto an entry fee that's already nowhere near justified by the prizes on offer.

And every time FFG ignore that and go ahead and organise another one in the same place. The European Championships are struggling to sell their tickets - they've been arranged at the same UK Games Expo that hosted Yavin Open last year and the poor experience of that appears (on the basis of slow ticket sales) to have turned off a HUGE number of players from going back for a second time.

What poor experience? The UK Games Expo experience is pretty good, with 400+ attending when it last hosted the Yavin Open?

Oh right, well I guess the fact that everyone loved it so much explains why they can't sell tickets for it this time round.

Eh? I can't recall any negative experiences of the event itself last year - it was a very well run. It's just expensive and (this year) coming right off the heels of another couple of Europe-wide System Opens.

5 hours ago, sozin said:

I remember at the World's After Party this year how, when I asked Alex and Frank on why they keep adding more and more attack dice to the game, Alex dismissed these 6+ attack dice builds as corner cases that are cute but not competitive. Sadly, its clear to me now that he was wrong -- they are both easy to build and very competitive. We've got Fenn, Finn, Miranda, Swarm Leader, Nora, now, its easy to build great lists (that, as Calen noted to me this weekend, are needed to punch through Fenn/Defenders defensive shells).

I'm just thinking that Jax at least moves last against all of those ships except Fenn Rau, and maybe Rey with Finn, which isn't a panacea, but it does give you a tool against them.

3 hours ago, IG88E said:

Unfortubately he is PS 8 so Fenn Rau will eat him with his target lock

4 hours ago, PhantomFO said:

Sabine bombers will eat Jax's lunch, and they're one of the more popular counters.

You at least have 66 points of list left to deal with some of this stuff, and the questions you have to ask is would you rather be weak to K-wings to gain an advantage agaisnt Parattanni? Likewise, can you trade Jax for Fenn and still beat Parattanni, or can some other part of you list hold off Fenn while Jax does his thing? These aren't rhetorical questions, so the answer might reasonably be "no" for a lot of people, but if Parattanni is taking nearly every open, and you're aiming to win, not just make the cut, Jax seems to be a tremendous tool.

16 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I'm just thinking that Jax at least moves last against all of those ships except Fenn Rau, and maybe Rey with Finn, which isn't a panacea, but it does give you a tool against them.

You at least have 66 points of list left to deal with some of this stuff, and the questions you have to ask is would you rather be weak to K-wings to gain an advantage agaisnt Parattanni? Likewise, can you trade Jax for Fenn and still beat Parattanni, or can some other part of you list hold off Fenn while Jax does his thing? These aren't rhetorical questions, so the answer might reasonably be "no" for a lot of people, but if Parattanni is taking nearly every open, and you're aiming to win, not just make the cut, Jax seems to be a tremendous tool.

First of all, yes, Jax is a tremendous "tool". Also, I think that I would gladly take a disadvantage against bombers for an advantage against parattani, I just dont think that Jax is the way to do it. I think we are all still trying to figure out what on earth it could be.

A well flown Kylo RAC + Carnor list swept swiss at our regional, beating at least 2 paratannis. He got outed in a rematch against Paratanni in top 8. I was happy about that, I wasn't sure I could do it. Carnor is really annoying to a Paratanni player, adding that decimator makes it just horrible to approach. I think Carnor's a very good play right now with so many paratannis out there. I can't fly interceptors that well myself, I never really practiced, so I'll not be going that way.

Against me, he kept Carnor close to RAC, meaning that approaching it with Fenn was suicidal. I figured I needed to do it anyways to have any sort of shot at winning, it came close, but Carnor was last man standing!

10 hours ago, sozin said:

Yeah, Jax versus Paratanni is awesome, its just that Jax versus everything else that is casually slinging out 5-7 attack dice is really painful. The Interceptor ship is hard to make work in the Escalating Red Dice game dynamics we are in.

I remember at the World's After Party this year how, when I asked Alex and Frank on why they keep adding more and more attack dice to the game, Alex dismissed these 6+ attack dice builds as corner cases that are cute but not competitive. Sadly, its clear to me now that he was wrong -- they are both easy to build and very competitive. We've got Fenn, Finn, Miranda, Swarm Leader, Nora, now, its easy to build great lists (that, as Calen noted to me this weekend, are needed to punch through Fenn/Defenders defensive shells).

To say nothing of "just" five dice attacks, which use to require multiple ships coordinating to set up reliably or were a one shot. Now ships can set it up on their own pretty reliably, repeatedly through range and their own ability/upgrade cards.

9 hours ago, WWHSD said:

I got a bunch of Destiny stuff when if first came out. It was a fun enough game but bailed on it when I realized how expensive it was going to be to play competitively.

I'll keep playing a cheap game like X-Wing.

Destiny is a great game and any game can get expensive

2 hours ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Oh right, well I guess the fact that everyone loved it so much explains why they can't sell tickets for it this time round.

I think Day 1 being on a Friday is probably the biggest factor putting people off. The Yavin Open at the Expo last year was great, and I'd gladly do it again, but I'm having to consider the cost and leave implications of an extra day of the event carefully. As I'm about four hours travel away, I'd have to head up on the Thursday evening to be able to be there in time.

Plus they've already sold 200 tickets, so they're not doing too badly.

1 hour ago, ozmodon said:

Destiny is a great game and any game can get expensive

I'm sure it's a great game. I just refuse to spend the same sort of cash on a card game that I spend on a miniatures game. MtG is proof that people will do just that though. I should have just seen the "Collectible" and spent my money on something else.

11 hours ago, WWHSD said:

I got a bunch of Destiny stuff when if first came out. It was a fun enough game but bailed on it when I realized how expensive it was going to be to play competitively.

I'll keep playing a cheap game like X-Wing.

Given that people can make a profit from selling CCG singles, Destiny should be self-sustaining if carefully managed. If anything they're probably cheaper than X-Wing (although if you can sell off your X-wing System Open swag you may be able to recover some of your expenses). When I was playing magic seriously, I played for free.

1 hour ago, Jarval said:

I think Day 1 being on a Friday is probably the biggest factor putting people off. The Yavin Open at the Expo last year was great, and I'd gladly do it again, but I'm having to consider the cost and leave implications of an extra day of the event carefully. As I'm about four hours travel away, I'd have to head up on the Thursday evening to be able to be there in time.

Plus they've already sold 200 tickets, so they're not doing too badly.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if that puts people off, as might it being 3 straight days of play. Even as it is, I'm probably going to be skipping at least one day so that I can actually spend some time at the expo.

11 hours ago, Biophysical said:

Is there a reason for any Imperial going to a System Open not to put Carnor Jax in a list? Aside from being generally good, it's one of the ships that really attacks both Parattanni, x7 Defenders, and to a lesser degree Dengaroo.

Carnor can be had for just 31pts (PTL,AT) and be substantial to winning against 60-70% of meta lists. I use Old Teroch in my scum list for this exact reason. Defenders and Paratanni dont like Teroch flying up to them, making them change their plans, which is always good for you. That is what Carnor does, aggressive lists all of a sudden have to take a step back because Carnor is on the table.

19 minutes ago, Moppy said:

Given that people can make a profit from selling CCG singles, Destiny should be self-sustaining if carefully managed. If anything they're probably cheaper than X-Wing (although if you can sell off your X-wing System Open swag you may be able to recover some of your expenses). When I was playing magic seriously, I played for free.

I've already got a job. I don't need a second one.

4 hours ago, WWHSD said:

I've already got a job. I don't need a second one.

Yeah to do Magic properly it's a lifestyle not a hobby, that's why I never went back to it. I made decent money from Magic (in the end) but it's a massive time/energy commitment.

I feel sorry for anyone getting into Destiny.

14 hours ago, Viktus106 said:

For me, it is the lack of accommodation. Simply put, there is none, it's all booked.

Not only are the European Championship being hosted, there is another event and a concert all being held that weekend in Birmingham so there is nowhere to stay. For London based players, it's a two or more hour drive and not something you want to do prior to a grueling seven rounds!

Try Coventry. It's an easy 10 min train ride from the NEC, and has very cheap hotels. I did that once for work - a bit more travel to do, but saved over £100 a night.

8 hours ago, WWHSD said:

I'm sure it's a great game. I just refuse to spend the same sort of cash on a card game that I spend on a miniatures game. MtG is proof that people will do just that though. I should have just seen the "Collectible" and spent my money on something else.

X-Wing is a lot of fun for sure. Now that they are putting reprints in new miniatures you don't have to buy everything and can just get the one faction you like best

Just now, Stay On The Leader said:

Oh right, well I guess the fact that everyone loved it so much explains why they can't sell tickets for it this time round.

Yavin was a very well run tournament both last year, especially considering the then-unprecedented number of entrants and the logistics of running it at the UK Games Expo. I had an absolute blast over the two days there. That said, FFG definitely learned from the experience and put it to good use at Yavin this year, with tighter organisation and timing between rounds.

I think the slow take up for the European Championships (if you can call 200 entrants so far with three months still to go "slow") is more to do with it starting on the Friday and running all weekend rather than it being alongside the UK Games Expo. Having to take a day off work (at least), two to three nights hotel accommodation, transport, parking, event AND Expo tickets all adds up.