Just now, Stay On The Leader said:

I think we've learned enough by now to know that any effect without a range restriction is potentially problematic. If Sabine was Range 1-2 she'd largely still work as intended (you'll almost always be range 1-2 of a bomb you dropped) but would be tuned down somewhat. I think she'd still see play at that point.

At 2 points with a range 1-2 restriction but still affecting other friendly bombs she's probably still a point or two too cheap. At 2 points and only affecting bombs dropped by that ship, she's probably fine.

14 minutes ago, Cerve said:

I want to focus that Sabine doesn't cost 2 points. She actually cost 2+anybombcost. 'Cause alone is useless.

Same thing was said about Palpatine... "He doesn't cost 8 points, he cost 29 because he has to be on the lambda shuttle."

What is up with people instantly wanting to nerf something because the top tear players are winning with it?

11 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

At 2 points with a range 1-2 restriction but still affecting other friendly bombs she's probably still a point or two too cheap. At 2 points and only affecting bombs dropped by that ship, she's probably fine.

Did Sabine **** in your cereal this morning or something?

8 minutes ago, sim1killa said:

What is up with people instantly wanting to nerf something because the top tear players are winning with it?

Instantly? I've been suggesting nerfs to Sabine for like 6 months.

6 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Did Sabine **** in your cereal this morning or something?

Yes actually it was really gross.

3 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

WHy not go for the Sabine one first? Because a sensible player won't let you, that one will be right at the back to start off with and you'll be screened from getting to it by the other two.

As for staying within range 1 of them bombs, it's impossible not to when they're dropping action bombs on you or your allies who are near you, before you've moved.

Oh, you mean like how sensible players won't let you go for the palpshuttle first in a PalpAces list? Or how about how sensible players won't let you go for Manny first in the (old) Dengaroo build? And yet the generic strategy was always to take those key pieces out first - the same logic applies to the Sabine enhanced K wing, who's even easier to kill than either of those two listed above. I did a long write up about a year ago for how to play an advance slamming K wing to get the bombs whenever you want... And while it was written from the perspective of how to make bombs work, it can very easily be used for "how bombs work, and therefore how bombs don't work." I for one am loving how bombs are now a thing. They're not dominate, but they're yet another aspect of the game that you must know how to face in order to win. I know in my round 8 match at Hoth, Kanan ate a full cluster mine intentionally. I was hoping to not take 5+1 damage from it as I did, but it setup a R1 shot on Miranda for both Biggs and Kanan... She wasn't long for the world after that. I think it was a mistake for her to slam to drop those bombs knowing that it took her from not getting shot at by Kanan, and having a R2 from Biggs... into a R1 from both. Again - just one more part of bombs that you need to think about regardless of whether you're the bomber or the bombee.

Go go double posting!

21 minutes ago, Khyros said:

Oh, you mean like how sensible players won't let you go for the palpshuttle first in a PalpAces list? Or how about how sensible players won't let you go for Manny first in the (old) Dengaroo build? And yet the generic strategy was always to take those key pieces out first - the same logic applies to the Sabine enhanced K wing, who's even easier to kill than either of those two listed above. I did a long write up about a year ago for how to play an advance slamming K wing to get the bombs whenever you want... And while it was written from the perspective of how to make bombs work, it can very easily be used for "how bombs work, and therefore how bombs don't work." I for one am loving how bombs are now a thing. They're not dominate, but they're yet another aspect of the game that you must know how to face in order to win. I know in my round 8 match at Hoth, Kanan ate a full cluster mine intentionally. I was hoping to not take 5+1 damage from it as I did, but it setup a R1 shot on Miranda for both Biggs and Kanan... She wasn't long for the world after that. I think it was a mistake for her to slam to drop those bombs knowing that it took her from not getting shot at by Kanan, and having a R2 from Biggs... into a R1 from both. Again - just one more part of bombs that you need to think about regardless of whether you're the bomber or the bombee.

As far as a sabine k-wing being "easier" to kill than a palpshuttle...not a chance. The palp shuttle is a whale that can barely maneuver. If you decide to kill it, it can't do anything bout it, besides palping one evade per round until it dies. A sabine k-wing can just slam 3 maneuvers repeatedly running away, making her rather difficult to catch.

4 minutes ago, Khyros said:

Oh, you mean like how sensible players won't let you go for the palpshuttle first in a PalpAces list? Or how about how sensible players won't let you go for Manny first in the (old) Dengaroo build?

Maybe because the shuttle has a terrible dial and doesn't have SLAM? And not sure how much Dengaroo you played against but Manaroo with EU is fairly uncatchable by the majority of ships in the game so in many cases that was just plain bad advice.

You CAN go after the Sabine one, but generally that puts you in perfect position for the other 2 to drop bombs all over you and unless you manage to get lucky and wipe it in a single turn then it will just 3 SLAM away from you for the rest of the game. Bombs are obviously not unbeatable but pat advice like "Just kill Sabine" is less than useless.

On 3/25/2017 at 9:58 PM, Rinehart said:

Justin's list was

Scout (Intel, R4, Feedback, AntiPursuit, Mindlink) 33

Scout (Plasma, R4, EM, Intel, Mindlink, GC) 34

Scout (Proton, Boba, R4, Mindlink, GC) 33

Fittingly, his triple scouts beat me and cost me a spot in the top8.

Bleh, that sucks but is ironic at the same time

The face that Sabine is the default choice for competitive bombing lists is why she needs to be nerfed (or something else aggro'd). "Well, I want to drop bombs, guess I need to fly Sabine..." Let's make the TIE Bomber great again :-)

10 hours ago, Lobokai said:

No, so we can finally bring Biggs to an acceptable level that opens the door to a squad title or the like for all XWings.

That excuse has always rung hollow for me. The designers honestly can't come up with ANY ideas to make X-wings viable without over powering Biggs. I'm sorry but that's bull. Design a title that's PS 4 and below. Introduce an EPT that's PS 6 and above. There. 2 solutions off the top of my head.

There's not some magical fix they want to release but just can't because of Biggs, it's because almost every time they introduce a fix, they **** it all up.

Integrated astro was a step in the right direction. But targeting astromech and especially R3 astro were both swing and miss attempts. Both of those droids should be free because of how situational they are, but FFG keeps making exactly the same mistake with their astromechs.

Would a 25 point Biggs with a free astromech that he'll almost never use be more of a problem than 26 point Biggs with R4-D6? Nope.

But a free generic astromech would help T-65s, T-70s, E-wings not named Corran Horn, and possibly even Y-wing named pilots—all of which need help!

Until FFG realizes that giving yet another opportunity to throw good points after bad is not how fixes work, there is sadly no hope for any T-65 except Biggs.

So please don't make him awful too.

2 hours ago, sozin said:

The face that Sabine is the default choice for competitive bombing lists is why she needs to be nerfed (or something else aggro'd). "Well, I want to drop bombs, guess I need to fly Sabine..." Let's make the TIE Bomber great again :-)

Well... you're not going to take her for any other reason, are you?

And it's once per round. 1 extra damage per round. Before a bomb token is removed. If it triggers. One. Once.

I mean you don't take her for the ride because you've two points spare.

Sorry if I'm missing the joke but the calls for a Sabine nerf are far fetched.

1 hour ago, Sekac said:

That excuse has always rung hollow for me. The designers honestly can't come up with ANY ideas to make X-wings viable without over powering Biggs. I'm sorry but that's bull. Design a title that's PS 4 and below. Introduce an EPT that's PS 6 and above. There. 2 solutions off the top of my head.

There's not some magical fix they want to release but just can't because of Biggs, it's because almost every time they introduce a fix, they **** it all up.

Integrated astro was a step in the right direction. But targeting astromech and especially R3 astro were both swing and miss attempts. Both of those droids should be free because of how situational they are, but FFG keeps making exactly the same mistake with their astromechs.

Would a 25 point Biggs with a free astromech that he'll almost never use be more of a problem than 26 point Biggs with R4-D6? Nope.

But a free generic astromech would help T-65s, T-70s, E-wings not named Corran Horn, and possibly even Y-wing named pilots—all of which need help!

Until FFG realizes that giving yet another opportunity to throw good points after bad is not how fixes work, there is sadly no hope for any T-65 except Biggs.

So please don't make him awful too.

I think the only way to buff T65 is to have an expensive title that increases your attack power. Biggs won't use it as it'll make him cost too much and it's really what they need to go back to the ship they were in wave 1. At the time they were the only ship with 3 attack power. Now it's very common.

1 hour ago, Sekac said:

That excuse has always rung hollow for me. The designers honestly can't come up with ANY ideas to make X-wings viable without over powering Biggs. I'm sorry but that's bull. Design a title that's PS 4 and below. Introduce an EPT that's PS 6 and above. There. 2 solutions off the top of my head.

There's not some magical fix they want to release but just can't because of Biggs, it's because almost every time they introduce a fix, they **** it all up.

Unfortunately, you cant do PS 7 and above because the EPT bot gives Biggs Veteran Instincts. They need to just put on the **** cards to fix Xwings "You cannot equip this on Biggs". Don't beat around the bush. Let's get Luke on the ****ing table already.

4 minutes ago, wurms said:

Unfortunately, you cant do PS 7 and above because the EPT bot gives Biggs Veteran Instincts. They need to just put on the **** cards to fix Xwings "You cannot equip this on Biggs". Don't beat around the bush. Let's get Luke on the ****ing table already.

Eh, just say 'your printed PS' rather than 'your PS'. Same way that Final Salvo stops Punishing One from working.

21 minutes ago, wurms said:

Unfortunately, you cant do PS 7 and above because the EPT bot gives Biggs Veteran Instincts. They need to just put on the **** cards to fix Xwings "You cannot equip this on Biggs". Don't beat around the bush. Let's get Luke on the ****ing table already.

That's why I suggested an EPT for only PS 6 or higher. He wouldn't be able to equip both.

2 hours ago, sozin said:

The face that Sabine is the default choice for competitive bombing lists is why she needs to be nerfed (or something else aggro'd). "Well, I want to drop bombs, guess I need to fly Sabine..." Let's make the TIE Bomber great again :-)

I'm right there with you on this one Sozin. A lot of players talk about how cards need to be nerfed when they are too powerful. There is another reason that can be argued for why certain cards need to be changed- when a card defines an archetype or an upgrade slot to the extent that there is no need to ever consider an alternative option.

Other, less problemed upgrades that do this are (off the top of my head. Probably more)-

Kanan crew w/ PTL or new Falcon title ships (Rey crew has helped with the former a bit though)

FCS with the systems slot (yes, other systems do see occasional use, but lets be real- the value of FCS is unmatched)

TLT with the turret slot (maybe this one isn't less of a problem lol)

Attani Mindlink for 3+ Elite pilot scum lists

Autothrusters for 3 agility boosters (super annoying that every single one of them has to waste their mod slot on this "fix")

C3p0 (for Rebels) and Engine on traditional PWTs (at least in the past if not anymore)

VI on named Phantoms (think this one is just kind of accepted now and not really seen as an issue by most)

Now, not all of these are problems on the table, but they do restrict list building in the sense that they are essentially "auto-include" in the given scenarios. I think any steps FFG took to alleviate issues like this is a step in the right direction.

The other reason is because she doesn't offer much in the way of tactical choices and decision making. Even with 3 bombers it's not THAT often that you proc her more than once per round except with Cluster Mines, and the choice of what to target with her is rarely one that there's interesting decision space in.

As with most things I dislike, it's not just that she's powerful, it's that she's dull and reduces player agency on both sides.

Does anyone have the list juggler for Naboo? I just wanted to see the overall final results and this Open only has the video of the top table matches.

18 minutes ago, Sergovan said:

Does anyone have the list juggler for Naboo? I just wanted to see the overall final results and this Open only has the video of the top table matches.

http://lists.starwarsclubhouse.com/get_tourney_details?tourney_id=2723

edit: looks like just the top 8 lists and a smattering of other lists are in there right now.

13 hours ago, DashBarrelRendarRoll said:

And it's once per round. 1 extra damage per round. Before a bomb token is removed. If it triggers. One. Once.

Are your games only one round long?

Indeed. She's pretty much the equivalent of dropping two bombs with a single maneuver.

I know that the anti-nerf crowd won't like to hear it, but you have to say that the diversity in the Hoth Top-8 is a refreshing change.

The metagame will consolidate somewhat, I'm sure, but it looks a lot better than it was.

1 minute ago, Stay On The Leader said:

I know that the anti-nerf crowd won't like to hear it, but you have to say that the diversity in the Hoth Top-8 is a refreshing change.

The metagame will consolidate somewhat, I'm sure, but it looks a lot better than it was.

Agreed, but my feeling is that Hoth may have been an outlier (looking at Naboo and Tatooine)

We're short on big tournaments before worlds, with I think only Regionals in Europe (I don't know their schedule though), and the Stele Open in the US for insight.

I'd guess Stele will contain FAR more mindlink, scum alpha, and a mix of Paul's list /Kanan Biggs.

Maybe I'll be proven wrong and it'll be more diverse, but that's my guess.