so the combined total player count for the three European Opens was just over 1000.

I wonder what the combined total for the five US ones will end up as. has to be considerably less i'd have thought.

i dont understand why the US ones are so small in comparison.

29 minutes ago, costi said:

Last top 8 was Krzysztof Trojanowski, playing double K-Wings (Miranda with Rey, TLT, Adv. Slam, Clusters and Conners and Warden/Guardian with Sabine, Clusters, Conner, Ion Bombs, Adv. SLAM, TLT)

Thanks, gonna add it

3 minutes ago, Holmelund said:

364 as far as I really.

13 of us was from Denmark

You have a nice group of xwing players in Denmark, I was hoping to meet Mads in the final!

We were 8 from italy plus a couple more who came from abroad

Well, my thought on the Defender nerf was that players that have been playing it for a while, or picked it up without having a solid grasp for flying developed some bad habits just hitting things and getting that evade. I saw it in a few games I watched, that they are having to think a bit more about placement and avoiding those blocking attempts from others.

Give it some more time to get flying under the new rules and breaking bad habits and I think you will still see defender lists. I am also sure that some over reacted and just didn't fly them because the FAQ. Meh

-R

10 minutes ago, atr127 said:

so the combined total player count for the three European Opens was just over 1000.

I wonder what the combined total for the five US ones will end up as. has to be considerably less i'd have thought.

i dont understand why the US ones are so small in comparison.

It is almost certainly due to population density and the associated travel costs. From some quick googling and math:

United States: 319M people (2014) over 3.797 million mi² = 84 people per square mile
Europe: 743M people (2015) over 3.931 million mi² = 189 people per square mile

The U.S. population density is 44% of Europe's.

8 minutes ago, MajorJuggler said:

" ...and the associated travel costs."

God Forbid I look this up myself. Are flights cheaper in Europe vs the U.S.?

2 minutes ago, Deroche said:

God Forbid I look this up myself. Are flights cheaper in Europe vs the U.S.?

I believe the point is one doesn't have to fly as often to get places in Europe in addition to the fact that there are 54% more people per square mi in Europe. Combine those and it's unsurprising that there is more turnout.

13 minutes ago, MajorJuggler said:

It is almost certainly due to population density and the associated travel costs. From some quick googling and math:

United States: 319M people (2014) over 3.797 million mi² = 84 people per square mile
Europe: 743M people (2015) over 3.931 million mi² = 189 people per square mile

The U.S. population density is 44% of Europe's.

well this sort of makes sense, but having now been to three Opens in Europe i can say for sure that at least 50% of the attendees from each came from a considerable distance and at some expense. likely 25% were from seperate countries. i'm just not sure this is the reason. if it is, are they being held in the right places? Seattle was fairly clearly a terrible choice.

US attendance is hurt by the association of some of the events with conventions, which significantly raises costs to attend. Paying $100 for a convention badge you have no need for, plus the entry for for the Open, plus inflated hotel costs, and so on.

12 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

US attendance is hurt by the association of some of the events with conventions, which significantly raises costs to attend. Paying $100 for a convention badge you have no need for, plus the entry for for the Open, plus inflated hotel costs, and so on.

I also wonder if having World's also hurts attendance since it is generally cheaper and easier to get to, creating more difficult choices. Sure, some people go to both, but maybe they'd go to two system opens instead of World's if they had to fly overseas. I don't know.

27 minutes ago, atr127 said:

well this sort of makes sense, but having now been to three Opens in Europe i can say for sure that at least 50% of the attendees from each came from a considerable distance and at some expense. likely 25% were from seperate countries. i'm just not sure this is the reason. if it is, are they being held in the right places? Seattle was fairly clearly a terrible choice.

I think MajorJuggler's point was that even including separate countries you're still talking about very comparable landmass with a more dense population. Placing them in the middle of everything in the US isn't necessarily better, either since, with the exception of a couple of midwestern cities (and there are three big tourneys in the midwest already, one of which is a system open) , the population is much more dense on the coasts. And, as Jeff Wilder pointed out, because they are at larger cons, it can be tough to pinpoint the reason for low numbers. I think it's tough to pinpoint just one reason. Endor, iirc, had a very steep entry/daily fee for the convention but I could be remembering wrong -- it may have been a different one.

2 minutes ago, AlexW said:

I also wonder if having World's also hurts attendance since it is generally cheaper and easier to get to, creating more difficult choices. Sure, some people go to both, but maybe they'd go to two system opens instead of World's if they had to fly overseas. I don't know.

I think MajorJuggler's point was that even including separate countries you're still talking about very comparable landmass with a more dense population. Placing them in the middle of everything in the US isn't necessarily better, either since, with the exception of a couple of midwestern cities (and there are three big tourneys in the midwest already, one of which is a system open) , the population is much more dense on the coasts.

This.

Although the European opens may have people from many different countries, some of them "far away", the distance is still not comparable to the US.

For Example: the driving distance between Warsaw, Poland, and Paris, France is ~1600km (994 miles).

An equivalent trip in the US, starting from New York City, NY, would get you to only Birmingham, Alabama (not even all the way South). And wouldn't even get you to FFG HQ in Roseville, MN (but somewhat close - you could get to Madison, Wisconsin)...

38 minutes ago, Deroche said:

God Forbid I look this up myself. Are flights cheaper in Europe vs the U.S.?

You could fly between popular destinations in any of Germany, Spain and the UK (the three opens) for around 50 euros.

5 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

This.

Although the European opens may have people from many different countries, some of them "far away", the distance is still not comparable to the US.

For Example: the driving distance between Warsaw, Poland, and Paris, France is ~1600km (994 miles).

An equivalent trip in the US, starting from New York City, NY, would get you to only Birmingham, Alabama (not even all the way South). And wouldn't even get you to FFG HQ in Roseville, MN (but somewhat close - you could get to Madison, Wisconsin)...

I would not drive Warsaw to Paris. I just googled it, and it's offering me an airfare for £39 (about $50 US). There's other charges to pay depending on the airline but a car costs around $0.20 per kilometer; it would cost you orders of magnitude more and you'd have years to arrive.

1 minute ago, Moppy said:

Only a nut would drive that. I just googled it, and it's offering me an airfare for £39 (about $50 US). There's other charges to pay depending on the airline but a car costs around $0.20 per kilometer; it would cost you orders of magnitude more and you'd have years to arrive.

Oh, I don't disagree - I was just trying to provide some sense of scale.

Also, flights in the US are usually FAR more expensive than in Europe, barring being in a few lucky cities (and ALSO going to very specific counter-cities).

33 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

Oh, I don't disagree - I was just trying to provide some sense of scale.

Also, flights in the US are usually FAR more expensive than in Europe, barring being in a few lucky cities (and ALSO going to very specific counter-cities).

I didn't mean to imply people trying it were nuts. I've edited the post.

3 hours ago, atr127 said:

so the combined total player count for the three European Opens was just over 1000.

I wonder what the combined total for the five US ones will end up as. has to be considerably less i'd have thought.

i dont understand why the US ones are so small in comparison.

The US also has an abundance of store championships, so there are plenty of tournaments to attend. There are no store tournaments near me (last one was in 2015).

We also for the most part have no non-airplane based mass transit. The Northeast corridor has a middling amount of trains but virtually anywhere else you have to fly or commit to a loooong road trip.

Another point of perspective, it takes a little under 5 hours to fly from coast to coast in the US, and 6 hours to fly from NYC to London. So a person from NYC has roughly the same time/cost commitment to go to a US west coast event as they do for them to go to a European one.

10 hours ago, Deroche said:

God Forbid I look this up myself. Are flights cheaper in Europe vs the U.S.?

With Ryanair, Wizzair etc. the flight price is dirt cheap. Plan in advance and you can pay the equivalent of 50 USD both ways and they connect practically every major European city.

11 hours ago, Holmelund said:

364 as far as I really.

13 of us was from Denmark

Team Poland was 18 people

13 hours ago, nigeltastic said:

I believe the point is one doesn't have to fly as often to get places in Europe in addition to the fact that there are 54% more people per square mi in Europe. Combine those and it's unsurprising that there is more turnout.

US being 44% of Europe doesn't make Europe 54% more. It makes Europe more than 100% more

It's also worth considering that whilst Europe has much higher population density, the UK in particular has ridiculously high population density, and the majority of the serious tournament players come out for basically every major tournament in the UK, and a significant chunk will usually travel to most of the major European tournaments as well.

2 hours ago, costi said:

With Ryanair, Wizzair etc. the flight price is dirt cheap. Plan in advance and you can pay the equivalent of 50 USD both ways and they connect practically every major European city.

Team Poland was 18 people

I played against one of your members in round 1. Suzanne I think her name was.

1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

It's also worth considering that whilst Europe has much higher population density, the UK in particular has ridiculously high population density

"Ridiculous"

UK: 260 per square km
Singapore: 8,226 per square km

28 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

"Ridiculous"

UK: 260 per square km
Singapore: 8,226 per square km

Singapore is "ludicrous".

5 hours ago, costi said:

With Ryanair, Wizzair etc. the flight price is dirt cheap. Plan in advance and you can pay the equivalent of 50 USD both ways and they connect practically every major European city.

Team Poland was 18 people

Very true. I enjoyed some great games against players from the Netherlands, Belgium, Poland and Portugal at Yavin, it was great to see so many dedicated players travelling to play.

I'd really like to attend an event in mainland Europe myself at some point, would have loved to go to Lothal or Tatooine.

1 hour ago, Biophysical said:

Singapore is "ludicrous".

Monaco must have gone plaid: 25,718 per sq. km.

58 minutes ago, ObiWonka said:

Monaco must have gone plaid: 25,718 per sq. km.

Goddammit I was gonna make that joke.

And my point was more relative the the rest of Europe and the USA than relative to everywhere.

So, despite repeated strikes with the nerf-bat, the JumpMaster is still the most common ship type in the top 8 (followed by the K-wing seemingly). Does this have to go down as the most overpowered/undercosted relese FFG have made? Or am I being harsh? Is it simply that its huge range of upgrade slots make it very flexible and suited to lots of different lists?