Hi,

for upcoming regionals, I decided to take the Empire. My first intended build was VI HSCP RAC with Vader + Juke Maarek, but I much prefer 3 ship lists. With the addition of TIE Striker to my fleet, I tried to build a squad with focus on red dice it can throw at the opponent while having decent PS and maneuverability. Here is my take:

Tomax Bren (24)

Crack Shot (1), Homing Missiles (5). LRS (0), EM (2)

Pure Sabacc (22)

VI (1), Lightweight Frame (2), Adaptive Ailerons (0)

- This slot could be filled with OL as well, which would help Vess with his TLs and provide the list with end game ship. However, I played OL in almost every local tournament for the last year, and TIE Striker provides kind of maneuverability options that just warms my heart, so I decided to give it a chance

Col. Vessery (35)

VI (1), Ion Cannon (3), TIE/D (0) , Hull Upgrade (3)

Total (99)

Cons are that these ships are fragile, but they hit hard at PS8 and Vess provides some control through ions. I have played two games (which is not much, I know) with this list and it performed really well, though all ships got some damage on them. I probably cannot expect this list to make it to Top 8 or even Top 16, which is fine with me

I'm also not sold on hull upgrade on Vessery. While it helps him to stay alive, I though also of getting Ion Pulse Missiles or Thermal Detonators for Tomax instead to provide some more control options. I saw some builds putting TD on him, but I do not know if it's worth losing 1 hull off Vess.

Did anyone tried similar list or ships in question? I'd be grateful for feedback and suggestions.

My gut tells me that LRS on Bren may be problematic. Without GCs he's really going to want to spend that target lock to modify his Homing Missile. If he does, it might be a few more rounds before he can fire the second one. Maybe use the points being spent on Hull on Vessery to give Bren Proton Rockets? That gives him a little extra punch at range one without needing a target lock.

On 10. 2. 2017 at 0:08 AM, WWHSD said:

My gut tells me that LRS on Bren may be problematic. Without GCs he's really going to want to spend that target lock to modify his Homing Missile. If he does, it might be a few more rounds before he can fire the second one. Maybe use the points being spent on Hull on Vessery to give Bren Proton Rockets? That gives him a little extra punch at range one without needing a target lock.

Yeah, LRS is more tricky than GC, but I thought that it will give me the option to perform focus or br action instead of TL, giving me more flexibility and increased chance to catch some more slippery ships.

Thanks for the prockets tip

Just an idea: Vader and Vessery go very well together, as the ATC needs to keep a target lock and Vessery keeps getting free TL's out of the deal. If you drop Vessery's Hull Upgrade, you can replace Tomax with Vader + x1 + ATC + EU + EPT of your choice and still have a healthy initiative bid. Having no HM sucks against x7 spam, but it might be worth considering.

Comments on your current list and previous discussion on this thread:

I agree that LRS is a bad idea here. I would stick to Guidance Chips. Also, don't put more stuff on Tomax, he's flying a fragile ship and overloading him with upgrades is likely to be a waste of points. Once the enemy decides that s/he wants Tomax dead, he'll survive 1 round max. If by some miracle he's out of ammo and still alive, he can still do OK at Range 1 with his primary weapon and endlessly recyclable Crack Shot even if he doesn't have prockets.

As bombs don't roll to hit, Tomax is a very poor choice for loading bombs. He also has high PS, making bomb placement tricky. If you want bombs + EPT, Gamma Veteran will do a better job for less points.

Pure Sabacc is very easy to focus down, but you have enough to worry about for your opponent that he probably won't be targeted first. The main difference between him and OL is that Sabacc is better in the early game and OL is best later in 1v1 situations. As your list is fragile, I agree with your choice, you need to do damage and do it fast. Your list will crumble if you can't gain an early advantage.

I prefer x7 Defenders over D's. Defenders were overcosted when they appeared and the D title encourages you to make them even more expensive.

So I brought my list to Regionals and went 2-2 in 4 games. Not bad, I was able to play 2 games on 2nd table, but that meant I met more refined lists and more experienced players. So I learned a few things about my list the hard way.

With that list, I really needed to kill some ships fast (and even faster than I expected) or I lose. Unfortunately, the only ship dealing some consistent damage was Tomax, either with missiles or with primary. He could be also difficult to shake off, especially with LRS to free his actions. Sabacc is much more of a gamble, but I think he compesates this with his cost and maneuverability. The only ship that underperformed in my opinion was Vessery. Yes, he drew a lot of fire (HU actually saved him two times and almost the third if not for direct hit crit), but his offence rolls whiffed more than once (he was getting his TL from Tomax most of the time, but still). Question is, is there some suitable replacement? I thought about few options to fill remaining 43 pts:

1) TIE Phantom

2) Inquisitor + AP

3) Carnor + AP

4) Rexler with Expertise, X7 and TIE MkII

Another option is to ditch Sabacc as well and try following:

Quickdraw (29)

Draw Their Fire (1), FCS (2), SOT (0), LWF (2)

Tomax Bren (24)

Crack Shot (1), EM (2), HM (5), LRS/GC (0)

Carnor Jax (26)

PtL (3), RGT (0), AT (2), Hull Upgrade (3)

I've never played SF before, so this may be pretty terrible idea. What do you think?

Not bad but I think you shouldn't give up on vess just yet. It sounds **** your dice were just cold. You just need to re adjust your points. I think hull upgrade is a mistake, you would be better off giving him expertise, so you can have double free mods going on and save his focus for defense. He is a target for people because he is just that good. If you rather save points on him though...

You could give him a score to settle or trick shot, and give yourself more points for the squad. Trick shot is great because if you set up your approach right, you can use it to great benefit.

I say this because I have been running this list to good success

Vess, tie d, ion cannon, trick shot

Vader, title ,atc, juke, eu

Omega leader, juke comms

It's a fantastic late game build that always screws with my opponents target priority. And I have been praising the ion cannon because it is the little bit of control I need to fight a lot of meta lists, especially triple k wings

3 hours ago, Pumpkyre said:

Another option is to ditch Sabacc as well and try following:

Quickdraw (29)

Draw Their Fire (1), FCS (2), SOT (0), LWF (2)

Tomax Bren (24)

Crack Shot (1), EM (2), HM (5), LRS/GC (0)

Carnor Jax (26)

PtL (3), RGT (0), AT (2), Hull Upgrade (3)

I've never played SF before, so this may be pretty terrible idea. What do you think?

Personally, I don't think your original list was a good one for Vessery to shine, so dropping him makes sense. 'Rexpertise' (i.e., Rexler w/ Expertise) is a very good ship and would make a nice replacement. Unlike Vessery, Rex is a great 'endgame' ship (something your list lacks).

Having said that, your 2nd list idea is really good. That's a solid list. However, its a very high risk/reward list that requires a lot of finesse and good prediction skills (to counter your opponent's moves). You will need a lot of practice with it to get really good with it. Not saying you shouldn't try, but I mention this only so it doesn't come as a surprise when you find the list struggling

I think you should use both lists and play as much as you can. I find it more enjoyable and a better learning experience to fly different lists.

Yeah the QD, tomax, carnor list went 2nd place in lothal open so it is a good list. Though extremely hard to pull off.

On 1. 3. 2017 at 4:25 AM, blade_mercurial said:

Personally, I don't think your original list was a good one for Vessery to shine, so dropping him makes sense. 'Rexpertise' (i.e., Rexler w/ Expertise) is a very good ship and would make a nice replacement. Unlike Vessery, Rex is a great 'endgame' ship (something your list lacks).

Having said that, your 2nd list idea is really good. That's a solid list. However, its a very high risk/reward list that requires a lot of finesse and good prediction skills (to counter your opponent's moves). You will need a lot of practice with it to get really good with it. Not saying you shouldn't try, but I mention this only so it doesn't come as a surprise when you find the list struggling

I think you should use both lists and play as much as you can. I find it more enjoyable and a better learning experience to fly different lists.

Thanks very much! Definitely going to try both lists. Rexler was my favourite pilot a year back, so it's nice to find a place for him

Also, I like difficult lists, as they force me to improve my planning and predictions by punishing every bad choice I make