My Gadgeteer is trying to make some items (Blaster Rifle and Armour) and the checks seem very difficult. 3 Purple for the Blaster Rifle vs the 2 Yellow and 1 Green for my check, so the odds aren't in my favour.

My question is - I am getting a boost die for my Signature Toolkit, but I was wondering if the rules give you any other boosts or upgrades?

I was thinking along the lines of crafting in a fully equipped workshop (boost or upgrade), paying for an expert to help (assist boost or upgrade) etc. Is there anything in the books along those lines?

Someone could Assist you....

Got Ninja'd by 2P51 on assistance so I'll add that you could also use Booster Blue (upgrade Int check) if you aren't anti-drug (Drugs are bad, just Say No kids) or flip a destiny point (at GMs discretion).

You'll have to raise your skill and intellect for the real boost. Gacgeteer is a greatnspec but not the best crafter.

The odds actually are in your favor for crafting things like blaster rifles. But you won't be able to reliably do really cool stuff . That is where more ranks in mechanics come in handy.

Narrative-wise, 2 ranks in Mechanics make you a decent mechanic. Maybe you did some schooling or an apprenticeship, or just a lot of self-teaching. But more ranks in Mechanics will really define your Gadgeteer as a skilled crafter, even possibly getting up to "master" level.

Suggestion: after leveling up Mechanics a couple ranks, the Armorer specialization from Keeping the Peace might make a decent dip spec for you...it's out of career, but offers two Inventor talents and also has the Armor Master & Improved Armor Master talents cheaper than you can get them in Gadgeteer (15 XP discount in total, which pays for half the cost of the XP to buy into the Armor specialization). It also nets you 3 more career skills and gets you a rank of the Gearhead talent on the way to the Inventor & Armor Master talents.

37 minutes ago, awayputurwpn said:

Suggestion: after leveling up Mechanics a couple ranks, the Armorer specialization from Keeping the Peace might make a decent dip spec for you...it's out of career, but offers two Inventor talents and also has the Armor Master & Improved Armor Master talents cheaper than you can get them in Gadgeteer (15 XP discount in total, which pays for half the cost of the XP to buy into the Armor specialization). It also nets you 3 more career skills and gets you a rank of the Gearhead talent on the way to the Inventor & Armor Master talents.

This is the way I took with my crafter. Keep in mind that you won't be able to use any of the force talents unless you take one of the Force E bridge classes first. Of course Armorer is good enough without all the silly force stuff.

20 minutes ago, SladeWeston said:

... silly force stuff.

Which is, as it turns out, the name of the upcoming Mystic career supplement.

15 hours ago, Andreievitch said:

I am getting a boost die for my Signature Toolkit

Not to be a rules lawyer, but if you mean the Custom Tool Kit from Stay on Target, it explicitly says you get a boost die on checks to "maintain or repair an item,...", no mention of crafting. It's well in the right of any GM to have it applied to crafting too, though.

Was looking for long term boosts myself, I've so far found:

Buying skill up to 5, and Int up to 6 with Dedication
Someone with higher skill assisting, or unskilled assistance for a Boost die

Cybernetic Skill Implant for Mechanics - Extra 1 Mechanics Skill (max of 6?)
Cybernetic Brain Implant - Extra 1 Int (max of 7?)

(Probably can't use Overcharged / Supreme Overcharged Cybernetics on a crafting check, as they are usable per encounter, which it wouldn't be)

Specialist Tool for Mechanics, with Safety Features and Supreme Craftsmanship - Extra success, extra advantage and an upgrade check
Booster Blue - Upgrade check for one scene

Technician's Workshop - Shipboard Low-Grav gives an extra advantage - Some giving difficulty reductions or check upgrades is mentioned, but looks like this is up to GM.

Inventor (Armourer x 2, Artisan, Outlaw Tech x 2, Scientist x 2) - Adds boost die per rank when crafting and modding attachments (or cancel setback die)

Eye for Detail (Cyber-Tech, Droid-Tech x 2) - Lets you turn one success per rank into an advantage

Natural Tinkerer (Artisan, Mechanic, Modder) - Lets you reroll Mechanics once per session

Master Artisan (Artisan) - Suffer 2 strain to reduce Mechanics difficulty by one

Intense Focus (Entrepreneur, Force Sensitive Exile, Quartermaster, Scholar, Scientist) - Suffer 1 strain to upgrade next skill check
Touch of Fate (Force Sensitive Emergent, Force Sensitive Exile, Starfighter Ace) - Once per session, add two Boost die to any check

Could find a Holocron that increases Mechanics if GM is generous

Plus it'd be rude not to include Intuitive Improvements (Artisan) for it's ability to add +2 Hard Points to an item being crafted!

So, assuming ungenerous GM, and one crafting roll with no bonuses or reductions from advantages from previous crafting rolls, you could currently get to:
YYYYYYYYBBBBBBBBBB SAA 3S->3A, reducing difficulty by 1, for a cost of 3 strain and 10 credits, once per session, with a reroll if needed

What have I missed ?

An actual character and not a factory assembly line?.....

Yeah, clearly more thought experiment !

Edit - Seems to be at least 900 Earned XP after Character Generation, probably more as you'd want extra Force Die to power Intuitive Improvements.

My actual character is no where near this, has 123 earned xp, has not optimised for crafting particularly, and rolls YYYG, with SA from specialist tool, and can convert one S to A.

You haved missed gambler with all or nothing. ;-)

On 2/10/2017 at 7:15 AM, Darzil said:

What have I missed ?

The Technician signature ability, Unmatched Calibration. It allows you to reroll dice from a pool without rerolling the whole pool. When upgraded fully you can reroll up to 4 dice, upgrade a green to a yellow and downgrade a red to a purple.

Very helpful with crafting.

I can see it in MMORPGs, but I really don't get the attraction of crafting in this system. Mods are nice, and having good gear is too, I guess, but I just can't see building a character around it as being any fun. I work in a factory, I don't want to role-play one.

12 minutes ago, SFC Snuffy said:

I can see it in MMORPGs, but I really don't get the attraction of crafting in this system. Mods are nice, and having good gear is too, I guess, but I just can't see building a character around it as being any fun. I work in a factory, I don't want to role-play one.

I like how my guys are using it. They are on an Imperial world and had to infiltrate a BOSS complex, so they thought up a cover story with a local tech firm. The mechanic crafted some armored clothing coveralls so they all had some protection and could ditch their laminate and other stuff.

In a shootout fleeing the BOSS building the Mechanic lost a leg in a crit. The planet/city was placed on lockdown and they didn't want to draw attention to themselves, so they scavenged parts from their shuttle and made him a prosthetic leg.

I think if it's used like that, as a means to cover equipment shortfalls and issues as they arise it's a nice system. I don't even mind if they want to build a better mouse trap and try for a decent gun or armor. I am poo pooing this silliness of just buying warehouses full of parts to keep rolling until a PC gets the results they want, that is just power gamer min/max silliness.

I want it used at the table, none of this 500 rolls in between sessions. I don't want people making a dice pool with a name, I want characters.

6 hours ago, SFC Snuffy said:

I can see it in MMORPGs, but I really don't get the attraction of crafting in this system. Mods are nice, and having good gear is too, I guess, but I just can't see building a character around it as being any fun. I work in a factory, I don't want to role-play one.

Amusingly enough, I consider crafting in MMORPGs and CRPGs one of the most useless things ever, it never matters, is only a time and money sink with basically no benefits, if you want a crafting system, you need to make sure that the crafting itself offers interesting options. Which is actually the case in a pen and paper system, because the GM can just build around special material requirements, working on your workshop, tools, specialisation, making a whole story out of the act of making a single personalized rifle, with prototypes, learning experiences, etc … admittedly as everything in FFGSWRPG the crafting rules are on the light side, but the options for all this are there, especially with the narrative aspects of the workshop, tool building and materials. The system always as well for outstanding pieces of equipment and encourage players and GMs to introduce new templates for other items.

Now the mechanic of gathering as many sources of advantages and as many advantages as possible … is a little on the boring side, admittedly I have seen plenty of better systems on that, but it suits the narrative dice system and allows characters to rely almost completely on their crafting skills for combat prowess via talents, mechanic checks, signature abilities and crafting. Be it via building and overclocking the best cybernetics in the galaxy or jury-rigging the hottest automatic rifle with the best mods and attachments in the sector, etc … now they mind have handed out the jurry-rigging talent a little too often out …

6 hours ago, 2P51 said:

I want it used at the table, none of this 500 rolls in between sessions. I don't want people making a dice pool with a name, I want characters.

This never happens anyway, rolls take time, groups have rarely enough free time to make more than a few rolls anyway.

Honestly, I wouldn't sweat it that much, My character (with the help of her handy Astromech Droid NPC) was able to make a set of "Offensive" and "Defensive" lightsabers and 2 training emitters with little issue. My character has an Int of 2 and no Mechanics skill, one boost was from a tool kit and the other was from me assisting the stock astromech (Int 2, Mechanics 2)

The pools were:

PPBB vs DD for the emitters

PPBB vs DD for the offensive saber

PPBB vs DDD for the Defensive Saber

The worst I got was failing the attempt on the first emitter

Now the sabers themselves are nothing to write home about (they work) it was more than I hoped to do (I was doing it because I was bored at an airport), it was still fun and I did get a slight boost with a Triumph on the second one, so the defensive saber also has the Stun 2 quality.

13 hours ago, SFC Snuffy said:

I can see it in MMORPGs, but I really don't get the attraction of crafting in this system. Mods are nice, and having good gear is too, I guess, but I just can't see building a character around it as being any fun. I work in a factory, I don't want to role-play one.

I would say the difference is that you're not playing a "assembly line worker" but a craftsman . As a creative person myself who really enjoys creating things (whether it's a drawing, a 3D render, or a custom Star Wars figure or Transformers kitbash), I can really get into the head of master of his/her craft.

The way I think of crafting in SW its like playing macguyver not a factory worker. You really want to be able to do x thing and you have y parts. A lot of talents are based on adding things to the story, building a device from spare parts etc. Between sessions crafting is fine in a lot of stories the characters have extremely modfied/special weapons.

In fantasy settings these are powerful magic items, legacy magic items etc

In Sci fi settings they are prototype, or custom made, or heavily modified etc. Look at han's blaster or the falcon hell even anakin's lightsaber was crafted by himself an insanely intelligent mechanic.

It's the game master's job to support this stuff. Maybe you need a specially faceted ilium crystal or a krayt dragon pearl maybe you need to raid a mining refinery where a new type of durasteel alloy reduces the weight of something. Maybe there is an entire quest for closely guarded template for disruptor rifles.

If your entire game devolves into repeatedly rolling dice then the GM has no one to blame but himself.

Iconic weapons are important regardless of the improvements they provide over store bought stuff. They add to the story they invest the characters. Fett's armor is iconic and terrifying you can't get that off the shelf. Do your starting characters need something like this NO. Would they like to over the course of the campaign build or find unique and cool items for themselves you betcha.

Always remember its a narritive system.

Let's say your player wants to build his own Blaster rifle customized for extreme range shooting and accuacy because he wants to be a sniper.

You could just have him make a negotiation roll at the general store to have him buy the parts and mods then have him go back to his ship and roll a mechanics roll to put it together.

He rolls and spends some time and puts the advantage where he wants hurray story over.

Or you could do this. searching on the holonet you discover one of the corps has developed a template for a new sniper rifle that comes built with a scope for extreme shooting and is very accurate. The product is in the testing phase and is expected to be out sometime next year. Now maybe your players can steal the prototype maybe they can figure out how to secure the template. Sure its a sidequest but hey maybe a rival company is looking to do some industrial espionage and will hire the players.

Now you have a story where the end goal will be crafting/stealing some cool gun no one else has.

Sure when they craft the new template you will roll hell maybe you'll even make enough rifles for the entire group hurray.

Also, you can make the other PCs pay for your services, and really get some intra-party conflict going.

19 hours ago, SFC Snuffy said:

I can see it in MMORPGs, but I really don't get the attraction of crafting in this system. Mods are nice, and having good gear is too, I guess, but I just can't see building a character around it as being any fun. I work in a factory, I don't want to role-play one.

This is why I like the Gadgeteer. My character has already built his own armour and blaster rifle, and he also gets the blam blam skills to use the items he has created! I can then craft new items between games that I can use for the next game!

On 10/02/2017 at 10:13 PM, Klort said:

Not to be a rules lawyer, but if you mean the Custom Tool Kit from Stay on Target, it explicitly says you get a boost die on checks to "maintain or repair an item,...", no mention of crafting. It's well in the right of any GM to have it applied to crafting too, though.

Very true, and I did miss that. But considering SoT was released before the Crafting rules came out, I think I have a good case with my GM. I think it makes sense that the bonus would would also apply to crafting.

Quote

Let's say your player wants to build his own Blaster rifle customized for extreme range shooting and accuacy because he wants to be a sniper.

You could just have him make a negotiation roll at the general store to have him buy the parts and mods then have him go back to his ship and roll a mechanics roll to put it together.

Or you could just buy a Weequey Blaster Pike for 900ish and have a dam 9 extreme range weapon, an Optical sight for 250, to reduce the difficulty by of shots at long range or longer by 1.

Which is the same or less than the cost of the parts and doesn't require multiple advantages on a mechanics roll from a character that probably has a 2 int and 0 mechanics

of course you can buy off the shelf stuff the point of this thread was being able to make your own unique and iconic items that are superior to the stuff you can buy off the shelf.

Yeah that requires time, experience and work but hey thats a good story. A guy bought some blaster thats just bookkeeping

Well you have a choice, either spend lots of time and money manufacturing a weapon that is at best marginally superior to a pre-made item or spend lots of XP, time, and money and end up with something that is potentially better than a store bought weapon.

They crafting system is designed to have several iterations of an item to get it to be vastly superior to what can be purchased. Which will cost you much, much more than buying off the shelf, buying the attachments to customize it, and modding the attachments.

The system does not really work as intended unless you have a roving manufacturing line to make the items AND have spent a ton of XP on mechanics skill and talents that support the crafting process. At which point, you are monopolizing the play session or bugging the GM.

Also, in the film and cartoon scources we see 1 (?) example of crafting and that is Anikin with 3PO.....