My group just finished a long stretch of fighting on a planet and were thinking they were going to safely travel home in a stolen Imperial Lambda class shuttle, unfortunately no one checked the sensors so they didn't see that an Imperial Star Destroyer was in orbit. Before they had a chance to do anything it had them tractored and was pulling them in...

When I presented that to the group it felt to me like they though that in itself was a bit of a railroad, and since most have used the max amount of stimpacks they can't heal very well and basically think they are on their way to their death. (The group consists of Jedi-in-training w/lightsabers, force artifacts, stolen Imp ship, just destroyed an Imp listening post) The best case is that the Imps think they are Rebels, the worst is that they find all the Jedi stuff on top of stealing the ship and destroying a listening post.

The players have expressed the frustration that they really want a rest and to get back home. I was debating on capturing them and staging a prison break aboard the ISD but now I am thinking about skipping this altogether and turning it into an epic space battle where the Rebellion flies in with multiple capitol ships and starts laying waste to the Imp ISD, giving them time to try and escape during the crossfire...Do you think that is too much deus ex machina by turning it into this giant space battle to essentially save them just in time?

Yes, it is. Jedi don't whine about how hard the mission is. Fat suburban Americans whine like that.

You are the GM, your word is law. If the ship captures them, it captures them. The Empire does not care that they are "tired & want to go home". They do care about their stolen vessel. Capture does not mean insta-death... capture of the heroes is a common Star Wars trope.

If you want, it can turn into an interrogation/breakout adventure... if the players are concerned with the fact that they've used up all the stims they can in a day, time-skip ahead a day or two while the interrogation takes place.

Are there any escape pods on board? Equipped with hyperdrives? That could be an out.

If they have an Ace or anyone with a decent Piloting skills, there's rules on breaking out of a tractor beam's grip.

Or they could just try and bluff the Imperials, if they have a skilled enough face. They could try to stealth out onto a NEW shuttle in the hangar bay, after disabling the tractor beams of course.

Did they say why they felt railroaded?

Jedi may not complain about such things, but it's possible for player fatigue to set in.

I've played in campaigns where multiple sessions were spent in the same locale with what felt like multiple roadblocks kept getting put in our path to be over and done with what was ostensibly a simple mission, each feeling even more than the last as if it were designed not just to challenge us but to thwart us (OOC, that is). We were just plain tired of that element...we weren't having fun with it. We all knew it...the GM knew it, and it led to mounting frustrations on both sides of the dice.

So, I'd say, take the proverbial temperature of the group. IF the same sort of fatigue is setting in, do what you think is best...either proceed as planned, or bring in that Rebel fleet to facilitate moving the players on to the next, new, different part of their star-spanning adventures.

There's not really a single right answer.

I've been on all sides (feeling bummed because it seems like I was set up to fail and being bummed because a big rescue made my actions pointless and being bummed that my planned encounter wasn't well received by players) and I have no solution. In the past, my GM's have generally responded with a 'trust me' that was (reluctantly) granted. In the long run, I did and it worked out great (the prison break was fun and I forgot my objections). I would say, give them lots of chances to be cool, maybe even find something interesting... (more loot, intel, a fellow prisoner that becomes a critical friend) but if you just cave and give them an easy out then a. you won't get a chance to build that trust, and b. they'll know they can get away with it.

I don't have the context to understand fully as to the exact nature of the direction that your collective narrative took, but presumably it is reasonable for there to be a Star Destroyer. If that is the case, then the Empire obviously felt like there was something worth protecting on the planet. It could be that the Rebellion is after the same thing the PCs were after on that planet? Or maybe they have an agent hidden aboard that very Lambda class shuttle, a Defel who has been tracking the PCs' movements. If the players felt railroaded, they might not mind some deus ex machina. Just play it off like you wanted to have a big space battle scene.

- Mini rant following that might help for some perspective, because I have been in a situation like the one I'm describing below... -

As a GM and player, I dislike traps that in hindsight were obvious and should've been looked-for, but I (as a player) didn't think to check for them, whereas my character should have at least had an inkling. That is where things like Vigilance come in, or clarifying questions. Otherwise it can feel like a GM "Gotcha!"

As example, would you penalize players for not saying, "I make sure to put down the landing gear when I land" by ruling that the pilot PC forgot to put down the landing gear? There are some things that PCs should just automatically think of, like eating and drinking. "Gotcha! You haven't mentioned yourself drinking anything in 2 days; you are now dehydrated and require immediate medical attention." Unless the players have a reason to expect this sort of behavior from a GM, they might indeed feel railroaded without some sort of hints: "You start to feel thirsty, and can't remember the last time you had a drink of water."

Case in point: as a "punishment" for the players not expressly stating "I check the sensors," not only did the Star Destroyer see them, but they had no chance to even do anything before it had a tractor beam on them. That smacks of railroading. Is there a good reason in-game that the PCs wouldn't be looking at their sensors while doing all sorts of other pre-flight check ups? Or that they wouldn't at least have a moment to respond before they were locked in? Even a general sense of foreboding/warning, like Han Solo approaching the Death Star?

Or was the situation the result of a skill check? If the players rolled a skill check, then yeah it should be totally fine and they should accept the consequences.

I have no sympathy for groups that ignore their medical needs. If they don't arrange to be able to treat their injuries appropriately it seems to me their the ones engaging in PC fiat. It's not reasonable to expect to be able to sail through combat and not have to deal with injuries I think.

Thanks for all the feedback so far! I think Nytwyng put it well, the players are feeling fatigued from the past sessions and the constant "on-the-run" feeling they have experienced. They have done a lot more fighting than they have in the past and it's taken its toll on the players so they are worried that if they are captured then they will be wounded with multiple crits on some of them and will be unable to do much damage or recover their valuables without at least someone dying.

The main reason I told them that the tractor beam had them without much rolling on their part was that they put their NPC pilot in charge of the ship...however they failed to realize that since he got knocked out about 5 times in the previous session he was suffering from multiple concussions and was only jabbed with a stim pack each time. No one took the time to look at him, they just kept pressing forward even when he told them he didn't feel very well.

So when they put him in the pilots' seat and told him to fly away he did, but he was still somewhat out of it so I did a secret roll behind my screen for him since he's an NPC and he failed the vigilance check to notice that an ISD was out there.

Most of them are beyond using stim packs now, they have tried to heal their crits but failed, and are worried that too much more strain/wounds would knock all of them out and therefore make them give up all of their gear and alert the Sith Inquisators that they have Force users aboard their ship.

17 minutes ago, awayputurwpn said:

Case in point: as a "punishment" for the players not expressly stating "I check the sensors," not only did the Star Destroyer see them, but they had no chance to even do anything before it had a tractor beam on them. That smacks of railroading.

This is actually something that I missed, or rather made an assumption about: I assumed the players were given a check to try to detect the Star Destroyer and/or a chance to try to outrun it before it got the tractor beam on them (by virtue of rolling for initiative). Those two steps are sort of critical here, and I assumed they happened. If they did, the players got some fair chances to make their escape. If they didn't and it was just a gotcha...yeah, I'd be put out too.

Edit:

1 minute ago, Ender07 said:

Thanks for all the feedback so far! I think Nytwyng put it well, the players are feeling fatigued from the past sessions and the constant "on-the-run" feeling they have experienced. They have done a lot more fighting than they have in the past and it's taken its toll on the players so they are worried that if they are captured then they will be wounded with multiple crits on some of them and will be unable to do much damage or recover their valuables without at least someone dying.

The main reason I told them that the tractor beam had them without much rolling on their part was that they put their NPC pilot in charge of the ship...however they failed to realize that since he got knocked out about 5 times in the previous session he was suffering from multiple concussions and was only jabbed with a stim pack each time. No one took the time to look at him, they just kept pressing forward even when he told them he didn't feel very well.

So when they put him in the pilots' seat and told him to fly away he did, but he was still somewhat out of it so I did a secret roll behind my screen for him since he's an NPC and he failed the vigilance check to notice that an ISD was out there.

Most of them are beyond using stim packs now, they have tried to heal their crits but failed, and are worried that too much more strain/wounds would knock all of them out and therefore make them give up all of their gear and alert the Sith Inquisators that they have Force users aboard their ship.

Did they leave the pilot alone in the cockpit? And were there no audible "new contact" alarms they could have heard from the crew cabin?

And failing that, did initiative happen, or was it just auto-tractor?

Sounds like they kinda shot themselves in the foot!

Time for one or two of the PCs to hide, and plan a rescue from an ISD detention block

Or a big space battle. Those are fun too.

The pilot was alone, no co-pilot, the group was in the back of the shuttle so it wasn't until their ship shook from the tractor locking in that they realized what happened.

I never had them roll initiative because I had the NPC pilot roll a vigilance check to see if he'd notice the ISD since he was piloting, but he failed.

So no, I didn't really give the PC's a chance, I relied on the NPC to roll for it because he was the one flying and no one else was near him.

Hmmm. I'm kind of 50/50. On the one hand, the situation was one of the PCs own making, and there WERE chances for them to evade. On the other, no one likes not having a chance to at least make a roll (based on their stats, not an NPCs)l.

Is the NPC pilot the only decent pilot in the group? Depending on how they can pool their dice together they might be able to make a piloting check (against the tractor beam rating, I believe) to try and pull free. Then it's an Astrogation check to get a new course in a hurry, and Bob's your uncle.

2 minutes ago, Benjan Meruna said:

Hmmm. I'm kind of 50/50. On the one hand, the situation was one of the PCs own making, and there WERE chances for them to evade. On the other, no one likes not having a chance to at least make a roll.

Is the NPC pilot the only decent pilot in the group? Depending on how they can pool their dice together they might be able to make a piloting check (against the tractor beam rating, I believe) to try and pull free. Then it's an Astrogation check to get a new course in a hurry, and Bob's your uncle.

None of them are spec'ed out for piloting so they would get maybe a small handful of ability dice and that's it, the NPC is pretty much the dedicated pilot but he was mostly hauling cargo and not doing any daring fighting maneuvers.

And on the other hand I already created a decent interrogation/prison break story that would take place aboard the ISD, so if they break free now that storyline goes along with it...which I know there is player agency for stuff like this, hence my questioning of the Deus Ex Machina move to get them out of it and on another path...

Either way though I guess I need to decide if I throw that giant space battle in to allow them to escape, or wait for it to happen after they are on the ship to make the escape more easy...otherwise I can create something new, allow them to get home (with a couple hiccups along the way) and figure out something else.

Just now, Ender07 said:

None of them are spec'ed out for piloting so they would get maybe a small handful of ability dice and that's it, the NPC is pretty much the dedicated pilot but he was mostly hauling cargo and not doing any daring fighting maneuvers.

And on the other hand I already created a decent interrogation/prison break story that would take place aboard the ISD, so if they break free now that storyline goes along with it...which I know there is player agency for stuff like this, hence my questioning of the Deus Ex Machina move to get them out of it and on another path...

Either way though I guess I need to decide if I throw that giant space battle in to allow them to escape, or wait for it to happen after they are on the ship to make the escape more easy...otherwise I can create something new, allow them to get home (with a couple hiccups along the way) and figure out something else.

The main thing is to not get too attached to the ideas you had for them being captured. It's good to have them ready to go, but the story should always be allowed to take a different direction.

ISDs have tractors with a rating of 6(!), so it would be a piloting check vs. 6 difficulty. If they're clever enough to put together a pool that could reasonably beat that (unskilled assists and Destiny points could vastly help here) or come up with a tech solution ("Mechanic! Lock in the auxiliary power!") to help, definitely give that a chance. Otherwise, I'd go with what Dunefarble said and ask them to trust you that you're not just being mean, it's just what happened and there's still a bunch of cool stuff that can and almost certainly will come out of it.

Middle ground for player agency, while openly recognizing their potential player fatigue:

At the start of the next session, ask them if they want to trust you to make what happens next to be a rollicking adventure, or if - for the price of a Destiny Point - they want a way to just bug out.

Be prepared for either.

If they choose to take the escape hatch, don't take it personally. And, hold on to that capture/prison break for a future session when they're a little more mentally refreshed and have had their proverbial palate cleanser.

If they're worried about health, I say start off their brig time with a sympathetic and pretty nurse so the prisoners are suitable for the delicate senses of the ship commander.

Just now, Dunefarble said:

If they're worried about health, I say start off their brig time with a sympathetic and pretty nurse so the prisoners are suitable for the delicate senses of the ship commander.

Or, if they're to be "persuaded" to answer questions or just plain put to hard labor, it's beneficial for the Imperials to patch them up somewhat.

Just now, Nytwyng said:

Or, if they're to be "persuaded" to answer questions or just plain put to hard labor, it's beneficial for the Imperials to patch them up somewhat.

Very true, always so irritating when prisoners expire prematurely.

No need for combat to escape the ISD. Perhaps there's an inquisitor on-board that is hot on their trail. The inquisitor actually wants to leave the empire and uses this chance to escape with the PCs. (this may or may not be a ruse to further his/her own means).

The Imps have all kinds of reasons to want to heal them up: dead men tell no tales, but live ones do, and the Imps have no idea how deep their knowledge might run; and there are probably Imps who want them healed so they can take them apart again...slowly. Lots of time in between for a breakout.

I do agree it seems a bit underhanded to have caught them like that. There's a GM in our group who does that kind of thing, and all it leads to is players being paranoid and afraid to take any risks at all. They'll start splitting the party so someone is always back at the ship in case it gets stolen, or start over planning every movement begging for Perception checks every 10 feet in case they miss something. If you're going to spring something like that, at the least make it contingent on a skill check, where you can then use Failure/Threat to justify it.

The element of player fatigue is valid too, but if it's in danger of disrupting the game I'd just be open about it and ask for their indulgence for one more adventure. Depends how you run your games of course, but I wouldn't have a problem promising some character downtime...if they survive...

11 minutes ago, whafrog said:

I do agree it seems a bit underhanded to have caught them like that. There's a GM in our group who does that kind of thing, and all it leads to is players being paranoid and afraid to take any risks at all. They'll start splitting the party so someone is always back at the ship in case it gets stolen, or start over planning every movement begging for Perception checks every 10 feet in case they miss something. If you're going to spring something like that, at the least make it contingent on a skill check, where you can then use Failure/Threat to justify it.

Yeah, that's what I feel bad about. I realize in hindsight that I should have announced to have them roll *something* for it...but unfortunately I didn't so that's another reason I was debating on using deus ex machina to get them out of it...I felt like a bit of a Richard getting them into that situation without a roll on their part.

I do not want the group to start being paranoid about everything and not taking risks due to things like this. It doesn't happen often, so I think that they will be okay with it...just more frustrated than anything else.

So during the beginning of the next session I figured I would explain the hidden roll the pilot took and apologize about not involving them in it. I will ask them to trust me and know that my main goal is to provide a fun adventure and not just kill them off and see if they want to proceed with the intended storyline, otherwise I can have them flip a destiny point or 2 and have them escape the tractor beam due to some "issue" that comes up. That way they will have the option (like Nytwyng said) to "bug out" and we can continue the adventure elsewhere in the galaxy and scrap the giant space battle completely.

12 minutes ago, Ender07 said:

Yeah, that's what I feel bad about. I realize in hindsight that I should have announced to have them roll *something* for it...but unfortunately I didn't so that's another reason I was debating on using deus ex machina to get them out of it...I felt like a bit of a Richard getting them into that situation without a roll on their part.

I do not want the group to start being paranoid about everything and not taking risks due to things like this. It doesn't happen often, so I think that they will be okay with it...just more frustrated than anything else.

So during the beginning of the next session I figured I would explain the hidden roll the pilot took and apologize about not involving them in it. I will ask them to trust me and know that my main goal is to provide a fun adventure and not just kill them off and see if they want to proceed with the intended storyline, otherwise I can have them flip a destiny point or 2 and have them escape the tractor beam due to some "issue" that comes up. That way they will have the option (like Nytwyng said) to "bug out" and we can continue the adventure elsewhere in the galaxy and scrap the giant space battle completely.

I'd say, give 'em a freebie and say that the player with the highest Vigilance get to make the roll in place of the pilot.

Just now, Benjan Meruna said:

I'd say, give 'em a freebie and say that the player with the highest Vigilance get to make the roll in place of the pilot.

Softy.

You could pull the "good imperial vs. bad rebel" switcheroo.

The ISD commander was an old soldier who fought alongside the Jedi in the clone wars and bears them no ill will, he maintained his rank due to ability and not because of the malice most imperial officers show.

His current current posting is to maintain order on tarsis, a notoriously xenophobic planet before the empire took control. Understaffed and with limited resources he took the unusual step to allow non-humans to serve the empire as troopers, pilots and even officers.

Not only did he improve the quality of his troops by being able to select from a bigger pool of talent but by showing that imperial rule could be less racist than republic era tarsis he prevented the rebellions most successful recruitment tactic (non-human treatment) from working.

Unfortunately this didn't please everyone. The rebellious elements on tarsis want to bring back the natural order (human first) and have been taking their fight to extremes. Burning down a non-human hospital, setting off bombs among the civilians during the emperor day parade etc.

The commander wants to recruit the Jedi, thinking the rebels will let their guard down and welcome the Jedi. If the Jedi can bring the rebels to justice and stop the killings they will once again bring peace to tarsis. Unfortunately they are on a clock, in a month the commander will cycle out and a new ISD will take responsibility for tarsis. If the rebels aren't stopped by then he is sure the new ISD will target suspected rebel hideouts from orbit causing massive civilian casualties.

The party can get some R&R on board the star destroyer, while planning on how to infiltrate the tarsis resistance.