An X-wing with R2 Astro and integrated costs the same as a B-wing. Not only that, the survivability is the same. The X-wing has a better K-turn, is faster and more manueverable. Yet consistently I still see BBBBZ out there and making the cut on occasion. Why isn't XXXXZ a thing?

My thoughts based soley on an educated guess:

B-Wings have a better dial for close in fighting and they have Barrel Roll. If T-65s had Barrel Roll for free via a title or something you would see more of them.

I don't know if it is still a thing. For fun I will run BBXXZ because I only own 2 b'wings. Is a second green worth 2 less hp and an astro? Maybe. I still find that top tier lists can chew through it pretty good but I started after the 4BZ days so maybe am not as practiced with the list.

Barrelroll. And Bwings tend to be more durable w/o regen or some other upgrade-related form of defense.

4XZ is still less efficient than 4BZ. Main advantage is having 4K. Fast moves dont do a lot for low ps generics.

Probably because 8 hp is more reliable than 2 green dice and barrel roll. (Statistic always works for hp, foesnt always work for agi)

A couple of thoughts on this from a fellow X-Wing flyer...

1. B-Wings have more shields for the same price.

2. A straight on joust doesn't need the speed an X-Wing has

3. 1 hard turn. Sure, it's red on a B-Wing, but at least it has it.

4. Barrel roll. Handy when you need it... Sucks when you don't got it.

... I'm surprised you're seeing BBBBZ make the cut anywhere. I haven't seen it (but I don't scour the results.)

But if that is the case, there are a few possible reasons for it:

(1) B-wings have a better dial and BR for close-in fighting, which is needed against high-defense ships.

(2) HPs are more reliable than AGI. So although survivability is close between the X-wing with IA and the B-wing, there's less variance.

(3) Bomb lists kill X-wings faster.

Survivability is the same on average. But the massive health of 4BZ means it will never die quickly due to terrible green dice. You barely throw any. Plus the barrel roll of the B-wing makes it much more effective in a scrum which is the only way the list can win.

The B-wings 2K was amazing before wave 5... before the dark times...

4XZ could be effective but you will lose a ship before it gets to fire more often. Honestly, part of the issue is the expense. Before HotR, you would need to buy four T-70 expansions, 4 X-wings (core, transport, expac whatever), and probably 4 Y-wings for R2 astromech (the only decent 1 pt astromech). 4 B-wings is a bit more likely if folks doubled down on Rebel Aces for sweet, sweet A-wing goodies.

I cut my teeth in tourneys with 4BZ. Life was good until boosting large based ships could swoop in, kill one and then run away until time. TLT's pretty much finished them off. Plasma torpedoes are a B-wings nightmare.

If you fly them well and the dice gods smile upon you, it is possible to win with either list. And they are still a lot more fun to me than many others. Screw it, I'm going to fly one or the other in the XWVL this month.

I wonder if you might be better off with XXBBZ than you would be going with one of the more homogeneous squads? The X-Wings have a bit better speed and have a K-Turn that can actually clear large bases if you need it while the B-Wings do a little better up close.

Blue Squadron Pilot (22)
Collision Detector (0)

Blue Squadron Pilot (22)
Collision Detector (0)

Rookie Pilot (21)
R2 Astromech (1)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Rookie Pilot (21)
R2 Astromech (1)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)

Total: 100

How is the B-wing dial better than the X-wing? It has the addition of a 1 red turn but the 4 straight is red, the 2K is worthless and it lacks the 3 turn. An X-wing with R2 Astro has better greens, and and a much better dial. The 1 turn is worthless unless you are running Advanced sensors or FCS. The X-wing has a far superior dial when you are locked into a 22 point build.

3 minutes ago, thestggrwng said:

How is the B-wing dial better than the X-wing? It has the addition of a 1 red turn but the 4 straight is red, the 2K is worthless and it lacks the 3 turn. An X-wing with R2 Astro has better greens, and and a much better dial. The 1 turn is worthless unless you are running Advanced sensors or FCS. The X-wing has a far superior dial when you are locked into a 22 point build.

Sometimes I'd rather be able to pull a 1 speed turn and have no action than to get an action but be forced into a faster turn.

1 minute ago, WWHSD said:

Sometimes I'd rather be able to pull a 1 speed turn and have no action than to get an action but be forced into a faster turn.

By that rationale though, there are times when I would rather take a 3 turn or 4 straight to get the hell out of where I am rather than be stuck in tight with a ship dueling me.

6 minutes ago, thestggrwng said:

By that rationale though, there are times when I would rather take a 3 turn or 4 straight to get the hell out of where I am rather than be stuck in tight with a ship dueling me.

Being able to pull a one turn while dueling is generally going to be able to keep you in a favorable position against ships that can't turn tighter than speed two. It probably just comes down to personal preference but I would probably trade any maneuver on the dial to have all 5 standard one speed maneuvers on my dial.

Both kturns have their uses. Its all dependent on the situation. The 2k usually still gives you a range1 shot if you were range 1 last turn, while a 4k tends to rocket you into range3 or even beyond that. Flipside, 2k is easier to block.

To the best of my understanding BBBBZ mostly survived due to a weird meta (deci phantom vs fat han) and more importantly 60 minute rounds. Neither of those are the case so I'm surprised BBBBZ would be considered successful, much less XXXXZ.

3 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

Both kturns have their uses. Its all dependent on the situation. The 2k usually still gives you a range1 shot if you were range 1 last turn, while a 4k tends to rocket you into range3 or even beyond that. Flipside, 2k is easier to block.

A 2 K-Turn in front of an enemy at range 3 can either set up a bump of have the enemy ship leapfrog into your arc.

8 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

Being able to pull a one turn while dueling is generally going to be able to keep you in a favorable position against ships that can't turn tighter than speed two. It probably just comes down to personal preference but I would probably trade any maneuver on the dial to have all 5 standard one speed maneuvers on my dial.

Agreed. This is why the TAP is still my favorite ship to fly.

35 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

I wonder if you might be better off with XXBBZ than you would be going with one of the more homogeneous squads? The X-Wings have a bit better speed and have a K-Turn that can actually clear large bases if you need it while the B-Wings do a little better up close.

Blue Squadron Pilot (22)
Collision Detector (0)

Blue Squadron Pilot (22)
Collision Detector (0)

Rookie Pilot (21)
R2 Astromech (1)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Rookie Pilot (21)
R2 Astromech (1)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)

Total: 100

I generally agree, but one of those Rookies should be flying with R4-D6 instead of the R2 Astromech.

Blair Bunke also rocked a pretty crazy low-PS list at the Seattle regional, using a pair of Tracer Bandits alongside another pair of naked Bandits and a couple of Plasma Torp Y-Wings. I wish I'd had the chance to see how he was utilizing it, as it seems like the list would hinge on the Tracers hitting their mark.

Because it's XXXX rated.

Were it not for the weakness of 2 die primaries I'd almost prefer to go with XZXZXZ instead of XXZXX.

Now if B's had a white 1 hard turn and 2 (red) sloops added, you would really have a sweet knife-fighter.

22 minutes ago, RayCidivist said:

Now if B's had a white 1 hard turn and 2 (red) sloops added, you would really have a sweet knife-fighter.

Make the S-Loops speed 3 and call it a Starviper.

1 hour ago, StevenO said:

Were it not for the weakness of 2 die primaries I'd almost prefer to go with XZXZXZ instead of XXZXX.

No longer valid for this meta but I loved my XXZZZZ list (4 Talas & 2 Reds w/ R2+IA), never saw the goodness of BBBBZ though I did smash a bunch back in my day, 6 PS4s usually one as a blocker and best of all the dials are almost identically except for 1 green/white being swapped so flying was much easier and I out PSed most swarms, denied their predator from extra reroll. Most people went for the Xs and let 2-4 Talas get in range one. With 6 ships I could clog the field, deny decloaking and tear through those good old 1 Green large ships....ah the good old days.

13 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

Make the S-Loops speed 3 and call it a Starviper.

If it had 5 shields, you could call it Grandma, but folks would fly it.