We are 3 rounds through our campaign that we have been running at my local store. Every fleet is at 500 points, and every player has 50+ points in the bank.

Now, we have had issues with finding time and most battles have barely made it through 2 full game rounds before people had to pack up and leave. I fully understand this has impacted not only the results for scoring, but also the number of ships that end up needing to be repaired.

Time issues aside, is it normal to end up with excess resource points?

On top of that, we had some discussion about how the fleet points work. A few of our players were under the assumption that you could spend points as you get them. Then you set your fleet, keeping what you aren't bringing in a "reserve" that will be available in the next refit/repair phase. In other words, you can spend in excess of 500 points, you just designate things as not being included (before declaring assaults) and do not bring them to the battle. Further, if you had a scarred ship, you could choose not to bring it to a battle and just hold it back until you had enough points to repair it rather than risk losing it completely.

My understanding was that once you spend 500 points, you are done. Excess points are banked and used on repairs or to build bases/outposts.

Again, I realize the fact that our battles have been truncated and there have been minimum losses is a factor in us having so many excess points after only 3 rounds. I'm just looking for input from people that have had more thorough experience with the campaign.

Thanks in advance.

The campaign I am in is on round 4 or 5 and 5 of the 6 fleets is near or maxed at 500 points. One of the players already has over 80 points to do nothing with, so I do think you can and will build an excess of resource points. This is balanced by how quick the game can be completed. 8 campaign points is not hard to get to.

In regards to 500 max points, you cannot exceed this. You don't get to build a reserve fleet and cherry pick ships and squads into a 500 point fleet. Everything you buy is added to your fleet total, and once you hit 500 points, you are done buying things. There is some debate as to whether upgrades not attached to ships count towards the 500 points. I say yes, other say no, but that is not a huge deal.

I don't have the rules on me, but I thought in the expand/refit page it says you have to use all your ships/squads.

7 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

The campaign I am in is on round 4 or 5 and 5 of the 6 fleets is near or maxed at 500 points. One of the players already has over 80 points to do nothing with, so I do think you can and will build an excess of resource points. This is balanced by how quick the game can be completed. 8 campaign points is not hard to get to.

In regards to 500 max points, you cannot exceed this. You don't get to build a reserve fleet and cherry pick ships and squads into a 500 point fleet. Everything you buy is added to your fleet total, and once you hit 500 points, you are done buying things. There is some debate as to whether upgrades not attached to ships count towards the 500 points. I say yes, other say no, but that is not a huge deal.

I don't have the rules on me, but I thought in the expand/refit page it says you have to use all your ships/squads.

We looked pretty thoroughly and couldn't find anything saying you must bring everything. We also couldn't find anything that said you could hold stuff back (aside from unassigned upgrades, obviously). It is possible we missed it. Some of the rules are... less than straight forward.

I was under the impression you always brought everything. Which also goes with my understanding that you never spend once your fleet hits 500 pts.

5 minutes ago, rowdyoctopus said:

We looked pretty thoroughly and couldn't find anything saying you must bring everything. We also couldn't find anything that said you could hold stuff back (aside from unassigned upgrades, obviously). It is possible we missed it. Some of the rules are... less than straight forward.

I was under the impression you always brought everything. Which also goes with my understanding that you never spend once your fleet hits 500 pts.

My understanding was since it doesn't say you can hold ships back, you can't hold ships back. Otherwise they could have said it in the section where they said you can hold upgrades back right?

Just because the rules don't say you can't do something, doesn't mean you are allowed to do it.

1 minute ago, Undeadguy said:

My understanding was since it doesn't say you can hold ships back, you can't hold ships back. Otherwise they could have said it in the section where they said you can hold upgrades back right?

Just because the rules don't say you can't do something, doesn't mean you are allowed to do it.

Oh, I totally agree. But on the flipside, the other argument was that since it doesn't say you must bring all ships, then you don't have to bring all ships.

Anyway, I appreciate the perspective. I'm curious to see how other people have handled resources in their games.

Yeah, my take from the rules was that you couldn't hold back ships, but you can bench upgrades (not titles). Since scaring is a thing, I'm guessing they would have been more explicit if you could hold a ship back and not risk losing it in the fight. They are explicit about being able to bench upgrades though.

As for if those benched upgrades count to your 500 pts.. it wasn't clear. Though I tend to think those benched points should NOT count to your 500. If they do count, then it's a weird rule. The times it would actually be useful to use are very obscure and rare to me. It makes more sense to allow fleets with surplus to have alternate 500 pt builds they can take in order to deal with predicted match ups. There I can see an actual reason for the rule to be included and used. It would just be important to ensure all list options have been set before each campaign turn.

The rules are definitely unclear about what exactly can be or has to be brought.

Personally I think if they clarified something to the tune of "Battles are limited to 400 points, but you can have up to 500 points in ships/upgrades/etc in your fleet". The excess 100 points there to swap out ships/squadrons/upgrades.

But that's just my two cents.

Anyone else find that even with the opportunity to play full games they eventually end up with a points surplus?

I'm just trying to get a feel for how an actual campaign runs before we start our next one.

Ending up with excess resource points is not to be unexpected at all. This would largely depend on how well players do at keeping their stuff alive, but the fact is that there are a lot of resource points available on the map. The campaign is designed to allow you to gain faster than you have to use them to allow for expansion of your fleet. Inevitably, if the campaign doesn't get lopsided and end quickly players will hit that cap and no longer need resources as fast as they receive them.

I don't see how folks are interpreting that unequiped upgrades are not part of the 500 limit, though. Page 11 of the book, under "Refit and Expand Fleets" states:

- After removing scar ID tokens, each player may spend resources points (not refit points) to add new ships, squadrons, and upgrade cards to his fleet.

This is stating rather clearly that upgrades are added to 'the fleet.' It does not say this is dependant on whether they are equiped to anything. The card is bought as part of 'the fleet.'

- A fleet's total value may drop below 400 fleet points but cannot exceed 500 points.

Since the first statement states that the upgrade cards are bought as part of the fleet, the 500 points is a hard limit on 'the fleet.'

- A player may re-equip upgrade cards to different ships within his own fleet (without spending addition resource points) or un-equip upgrade cards entirely.

So, you can move them around or remove them from ships, but at no point does this statement declare that the cards are in any way removed from 'the fleet,' nor that being part of 'the fleet' is dependent on being equiped.

- Upgrade cards that are not equipped are set aside and can be equipped during a later campaign turn.

Here was the last reasonable chance to tell us that the cards are in some way removed from 'the fleet' when you set them aside. But it doesn't say that, it just says they are set aside. At no point in time have upgrade cards been removed from 'the fleet,' they have simply been unequiped and set aside.

The only reasonable argument for upgrade cards being outside of the 500 point limit is by extrapolating that 'set aside' in some way removes it from the fleet. However, since the cards are bought for 'the fleet' rather than the ship you are planning to equip it to, this seems clear that 'set aside' doesn't mean, remove from 'the fleet.'

Ergo, 500 is a hard limit, and there isn't, to use a MtG term, a 'sideboard' of upgrades that you can shift in and out allowing you to go above 500 total points.

As for 'holding back' ships, I would agree that as there is no provision allowing it, you can't do it. Armada is played with your full fleet, so unless a campaign rules specifically says otherwise (such as the rule that allows you to hold back upgrades), then you must use the entire fleet.

8 hours ago, rowdyoctopus said:

Anyone else find that even with the opportunity to play full games they eventually end up with a points surplus?

I'm just trying to get a feel for how an actual campaign runs before we start our next one.

No. If you have excess points then go full speed ahead and table your opponent. Do not stop till they are crying on the floor.

Who has Demo? They should be crushing any rebel who even think of building fleet value.

This is something to be considered with your first fleets. Who is going to crush any weakness? Currently Dodonnas fleet is struggling to build strength. I have asigned Demo to make sure Dodonna is retired. No time for mercy.

13 hours ago, Xindell said:

Ending up with excess resource points is not to be unexpected at all. This would largely depend on how well players do at keeping their stuff alive, but the fact is that there are a lot of resource points available on the map. The campaign is designed to allow you to gain faster than you have to use them to allow for expansion of your fleet. Inevitably, if the campaign doesn't get lopsided and end quickly players will hit that cap and no longer need resources as fast as they receive them.

I don't see how folks are interpreting that unequiped upgrades are not part of the 500 limit, though. Page 11 of the book, under "Refit and Expand Fleets" states:

- After removing scar ID tokens, each player may spend resources points (not refit points) to add new ships, squadrons, and upgrade cards to his fleet.

This is stating rather clearly that upgrades are added to 'the fleet.' It does not say this is dependant on whether they are equiped to anything. The card is bought as part of 'the fleet.'

- A fleet's total value may drop below 400 fleet points but cannot exceed 500 points.

Since the first statement states that the upgrade cards are bought as part of the fleet, the 500 points is a hard limit on 'the fleet.'

- A player may re-equip upgrade cards to different ships within his own fleet (without spending addition resource points) or un-equip upgrade cards entirely.

So, you can move them around or remove them from ships, but at no point does this statement declare that the cards are in any way removed from 'the fleet,' nor that being part of 'the fleet' is dependent on being equiped.

- Upgrade cards that are not equipped are set aside and can be equipped during a later campaign turn.

Here was the last reasonable chance to tell us that the cards are in some way removed from 'the fleet' when you set them aside. But it doesn't say that, it just says they are set aside. At no point in time have upgrade cards been removed from 'the fleet,' they have simply been unequiped and set aside.

The only reasonable argument for upgrade cards being outside of the 500 point limit is by extrapolating that 'set aside' in some way removes it from the fleet. However, since the cards are bought for 'the fleet' rather than the ship you are planning to equip it to, this seems clear that 'set aside' doesn't mean, remove from 'the fleet.'

Ergo, 500 is a hard limit, and there isn't, to use a MtG term, a 'sideboard' of upgrades that you can shift in and out allowing you to go above 500 total points.

As for 'holding back' ships, I would agree that as there is no provision allowing it, you can't do it. Armada is played with your full fleet, so unless a campaign rules specifically says otherwise (such as the rule that allows you to hold back upgrades), then you must use the entire fleet.

I accept your break down. But I think it's weird the rule "Upgrade cards that are not equipped are set aside and can be equipped during a later campaign turn." exists at all. Is it there just so that if you have a unique card and the only ship in your fleet that can use it is scarred and you don't want any chance to lose the card, you bench it? Other than titles (which you can't bench), the other cards that this might "commonly" apply to are officers.. and you can probably find some other place for one? The rule seems at odds with the "telling a story" aspect of the campaign if it's to be used like this.

What are some other good reasons you would bench a card that is part of you points allowance such that this rule needed to be written?

On 2/9/2017 at 2:47 PM, DakDaniels said:

The rules are definitely unclear about what exactly can be or has to be brought.

Personally I think if they clarified something to the tune of "Battles are limited to 400 points, but you can have up to 500 points in ships/upgrades/etc in your fleet". The excess 100 points there to swap out ships/squadrons/upgrades.

But that's just my two cents.

Can you withhold ships in regular Armada games?

If not, why would this be different now?

Quote

What are some other good reasons you would bench a card that is part of you points allowance such that this rule needed to be written?

Lets say you, as a rebel player in my group did, buy overload pulse.

Then you decide that ship would work better with SW7s. But you have no other ship to put overload pulse on.

You pay your 5 resource points, put SW7s on the ship, and 'bench' overload pulse.

You can switch it back later if you like.

2 minutes ago, Grey Mage said:

Can you withhold ships in regular Armada games?

If not, why would this be different now?

I probably didn't phrase that correctly.

What I meant was that for the campaign, it would have been cool to have a sideboard of sorts of 100 points so you could swap out ships/upgrades. But limit the actual games to 400 points.

I think if they had used thst approach, the rules may have been less confusing with the jump to 500 points since standard non-campaign games are still 400 points.

Ah, yes- it was the part about 'the rules are unclear about what can be or has to be brought.'

I dont think theres any ambiguity there.

A sideboard would be interesting. Heck, the ability to run multiple fleets as a single person would be interesting too. *shrugs*

I feel that it could be but it isn't inevitable.

My faction just finished up our 4th turn and we now have the Alliance at 3, 500 point fleets once repaired (One fleet went into the fray at 500 points but almost completely scarred, but the gamble paid off and it went on to stamp an Imperial fleet). I ended up losing a base assault last turn and needed some 40 points I banked before in order to return my ships to active duty for the next turn. That said, we've declared an All-out Assault, and 2 Imperial fleets will be in the 440's and scarred, one at 475. No one was resource hunting and we had 2 fleets retired during the course of the campaign.

Depends how aggressive you're being and if you're going for resource missions. Our Base assaults always seem to end up in bloodbaths.

In one run of CC I found myself up on resources, in the current one I'm scrounging for every point, so I don't think it's an excessive amount of points. An alternative is to start the fleets at 300 to allow for more growth and faster games(house rule of course).

As far as fleets and keeping ships out, no, all ships must be present I would say. And resources max at 500 but you can leave upgrades behind when going into battle.

6 hours ago, Jukey said:

In one run of CC I found myself up on resources, in the current one I'm scrounging for every point, so I don't think it's an excessive amount of points. An alternative is to start the fleets at 300 to allow for more growth and faster games(house rule of course).

As far as fleets and keeping ships out, no, all ships must be present I would say. And resources max at 500 but you can leave upgrades behind when going into battle.

Our last to campaign rounds have involved fleets nearly tabling one another and Corellia swapping hands. Rebels are intentionally playing attrition games. One passive round and Imps will be back at Max.