Hello,

I'm posting to seek advice for my brother, who has just gotten into the game at the same time as me and has been getting frustrated taking his squad to store events (exacerbated by an arrogant opponent).

Darth Vader (29)

TIE/x1 (0)

A Score to Settle (0)

Advanced Targeting Computer (1)

Engine Upgrade (4)

(34)

Soontir Fel (27)

Royal Guard TIE (0)

Push the Limit (3)

Autothrusters (2)

Stealth Device (3)

(35)

The Inquisitor (25)

TIE/v1 (1)

Push the Limit (3)

Autothrusters (2)

(31)

(100)

He built this list based off of the pilots he finds most appealing. He says he faced 'Miranda, Norra, Green Squadron Pilot ... regens everywhere', followed by 'Miranda, Sabine (w/Syndulla), Poe (w/R2) ... regens and free action/no stress,' and that the other players had 'Ghost, Miranda, and Sabine' and 'a YT-2400, Miranda, and Captain Rex.' He says he tries to stay at Range 3 and focuses on the non-regenerating ships first. I told him he might need to get in close to deal higher damage against the regenners and get inside TLT bubbles. I wasn't sure on target priority, though.

He made noises about a new list, so I sent him the Triple Defenders list, as well as the list from the article yesterday (with appropriate provisos). Are Defenders effective against TLTs? I assume so, since Defenders are the 'joust' corner of the rock-paper-scissors triad. However, I think he'd prefer to stick with his original list (or something close) if possible, so does anyone have any good tactics for Imperial aces to use against Miranda and her friends?

Thank you very much for any input you're able to provide.

First step is the arrogant opponent should be asked to tone it down by the TO or told to leave. There needs to be zero tolerance for that type of behaviour or your community will crumble. Nothing wrong with fist pumping over a nice shot, but talking down to your opponent or exaggerating your victory dance is to far. This is difficult I understand given the audience contains a lot of ... less than socially apt .. individuals, but that is still not an excuse. If anything he should have been helping your brother and explaining moves to him to help him better his game and enjoyment of the game moving forward. This guy thinks a store championship is going to take him to the worlds table or something? It's like when I play rec hockey and the guys who had one Junior B game in their career still think they are making the NHL. Sad.

Yikes, that's a LOT of Miranda. What, do people not play Scum any more? I thought that was the up-and-coming thing, what with Dengaroo, Mindlink squads, and the Scyck fix (...I jest about the last one. Sort of.)

Anyway, I think you're right on about getting in close for TLTs. The problem is that Miranda can easily drop a bomb on your ace if you get too close. Heck, even if you give her a wide berth, you still have a chance at being bombed, and aces don't like that. Obviously, Inquisitor gains nothing from being in range 1, so he should be on the outskirts shooting in. Fel...I know it's not necessarily popular, but your brother might consider switching out Stealth Device for Hull Upgrade. Stealth Device is great against TLT, but Hull Upgrade could give Fel a little bit of armor against bombs (specifically Conner Net). If he gets hit, he takes two damage (because of Sabine crew), and without Hull Upgrade, Miranda just has to tag him once with a TLT while he's actionless the following round. With Hull, she has to do it twice, and if she tries to regen with one of those shots, Fel's Autothrusters have a good chance at keeping him alive and threatening. (And I'll add, parenthetically, that if he's really having a tough time pushing damage through, and Autothrusters is doing enough to keep Soontir alive, Targeting Computer can do wonders for increasing damage output).

Darth Vader...I don't know. He looks alright there. "A Score to Settle" should let him save his focus for defense, which is a good call. I'm wondering about Engine Upgrade. It should be really helpful for getting into the TLT's range 1 dead zone, but you have to be careful how you use it. I'd have to see how your brother plays to know for sure, but usually Darth Vader should set up a target lock, and then focus and evade until that target is down. At least that's the case against turrets. Without Autothrusters, he needs all the defense he can get. It's better to zoom out of range, and then come back for another pass, instead of boosting in range 3 in pursuit of a TLT: Vader's shot will be relatively ineffectual against these high-health TLT carriers, while their TLTs are just as dangerous at range 3 as they are at range 2. Against non-turrets, liberal use of boost and barrel roll is excellent for dodging arcs, so I think it should probably stay there.

TIE defenders will be good. The 3-3-3-3 stat line is pretty bonkers with the new titles. Yes, titles, plural. TLT carriers generally have low agility, so an ion/D defender can set up the target to get slammed by Soontir and Inquisitor at range 1. TIE x/7's have more durability, but sometimes the best defense is a good offense. Just a thought.

My suggestion is for him to take his favorite 2 aces and bring a couple of Tie's for blocking, maybe something with crackshot if it will fit. Another twist might be to bring Inq, OL, and Vess (VetInst /D with TB or Ion) Great synergy there with 2 ships that TL constantly and Vess throwing consistent heat. I like TB to put those nasty TLT's on rocks or Rng1. Just my thoughts. Also, Make sure he is trying to focus down one ship at a time, if he is splitting fire against regens he may be losing the match vs. being beaten.

The evil side of me says to put together something specific to counter and then give him a taste of his own BS, Feel free to suggest these for fun

Regen Rebs (100)

Corran Horn (41) - E-Wing

Adaptability (0), R2-D2 (4), Fire Control System (2)

Poe Dameron (36) - T-70 X-Wing

Adaptability (0), R5-P9 (3), Autothrusters (2)

Green Squadron Pilot (23) - A-Wing

Push The Limit (3), Chardaan Refit (-2), A-Wing Test Pilot (0), Autothrusters (2), Wired (1)

TLT variant (100)

Miranda Doni (37) - K-Wing

Twin Laser Turret (6), Rey (2)

Esege Tuketu (37) - K-Wing

Twin Laser Turret (6), Recon Specialist (3)

Gold Squadron Pilot (26) - Y-Wing

Twin Laser Turret (6), R3-A2 (2)

Unfortunately for your brother, a lot of the Miranda and Sabine bomb builds you are seeing right now are a direct response to people getting frustrated playing against the sort of squad he's trying to play. The regen lists tend to do well against aces as well because the ace lists tend to not be about burst damage as much as they are being able to whittle down ships while avoiding taking damage themselves.

If he wants to stick with something ace heavy it might be helpful to find a way to squeeze in a bit more damage:

Darth Vader (29)
Expertise (4)
Homing Missiles (5)
Advanced Targeting Computer (1)
Guidance Chips (0)
TIE/x1 (0)

The Inquisitor (25)
Push the Limit (3)
Proton Rockets (3)
Autothrusters (2)
TIE/v1 (1)

"Omega Leader" (21)
Juke (2)
Comm Relay (3)

Total: 99

These guys should be able to throw out a strong enough alpha to burn a lot of ships down before they even get a chance to attack. Vader throws out a 4 die Homing Missile that is almost always going to have 4 hits, followed by a two dice attack from Omega Leader against unmodified green dice with Juke killing an evade result, leaving a 3 dice attack from The Inquisitor that doesn't grant an extra green die or trigger Autothrusters to clean up. If you can control the opening exchange so that it happens at range three and have a target that they can focus on, these three guys should be able to some out of the initial exchange well ahead. The Inquisitor has a Proton Rocket that lets him push through some big damage if he gets cornered in range one (or inside a TLT's dead zone).

He has three ships that basically do the same thing. Dodge arcs. Problem is, bombers and PWTs and Mobile Turrets aka the meta, dont care if you dodge an arc, and bombs in particular dont care how many green dice you have.

Your brother needs to change his list to counter the meta. This means more HP like dropping one ace for a Defender, or increasing firepower with a ship like Whisper or have ordnance for a heavy hit like WWHSD suggested above. He could drop Soontir for Deathfire + Conner Nets + EM along with an Academy Pilot. This gives him a blocker to block bombers and prevent mega Alpha strikes like Bossk with clusters from getting arc, can prevent Asajj from getting her evade, and block Poe from getting his focus. Deathfire with Conners prevents all action economy like Miranda slamming away or dropping bombs and gives your aces easy access to range 1 shots. Cluster Mines instead of Conners for increase damage output (like instantly killing Fenn Rau). Trip Aces lists arent what they use to be.

TLT builds are a PITA. Death by a thousand cuts. Might try a gamma squadron bomber with extra munitions, plasma torps, concussion & cluster munitions (31 pts). Throw on guidance chips!! Sub for inquisitor.

Right, so this really depends on which expansions your brother has but I have found this list has been really effective against my mates, who like to play regen lists.

------
Gamma Squadron Pilot (26) TIE Bomber (18), TIE Shuttle (0), Experimental Interface (3), Systems Officer (2), Fleet Officer (3)

Darth Vader (35) TIE Advanced (29), TIE/x1 (0), Cluster Missiles (4), Expert Handling (2), Guidance Chips (0), Accuracy Corrector (0)

“Whisper” (39) TIE Phantom (32), Agent Kallus (2), Collision Detector (0), Veteran Instincts (1), Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

The Idea here is that the Gamma Squad pilot follows around Vader & Whisper handing out target locks and using it's action to give out focus tokens. Vader opens with cluster missile shots & has Accuracy Corrector over the standard Adv. Targeting Comp as it gives you just a nice reliable output of damage onto your target, you can get a TL from the shuttle, attack, if you get anything other than crits you use the TL to reroll and try to score more Crits, if you don't get get at least a crit/hit you can use the accuracy corrector to just go to 2 damage; the Cluster Missiles are there to try and alpha something. Whisper & Agent Kallus go after the big ship in your opponents list, VI means mostly move last/shoot first and you can use the de-cloak & cloak actions to position like a ninja then give them the 5 dice range 1 and immediately cloak for that sweet 4 dice dodge, plus Agent Kallus helps you out with the free conversions.

Thanks for all the suggestions, tactical and list-wise, everyone. This has become an excellent source of information. I've shown my brother this thread and he appreciates the responses. Right now I think he is leaning towards changing his list, but he wants to keep the original one for casual play. I sense an Imperial Veterans in his future ...

14 minutes ago, TheHumanHydra said:

Thanks for all the suggestions, tactical and list-wise, everyone. This has become an excellent source of information. I've shown my brother this thread and he appreciates the responses. Right now I think he is leaning towards changing his list, but he wants to keep the original one for casual play. I sense an Imperial Veterans in his future ...

If he likes something he should keep at practicing it. The meta changes and ships that were on top during one wave can become almost non-existent in the next. The types of squads that are giving him heartburn right now were nowhere to be seen while the torpedo chucking Jumpmaster lists were a constant threat.

Triple Aces can also be very unforgiving of mistakes and it is an archetype most players have some experience playing and playing against so it can be a difficult squad to start out with.

It may be helpful for him to play one of the squads that he is having trouble with to get a better understanding of how to play against it. If he can find someone that is good with Triple Aces to fly against him, that's even better.

That is some good advice! I know he has been practicing on Squadron Benchmark. Hopefully the Interceptor-style ships do become more viable again. I also bought into the game with them, because they're cool.

Make sure you're using Ynot's benchmark... many important improvements and updates added.

On February 12, 2017 at 9:22 PM, Lobokai said:

Make sure you're using Ynot's benchmark... many important improvements and updates added.

Thanks! Yeah, he has been.

On 2/10/2017 at 5:01 AM, UberMunchkin said:

Gamma Squadron Pilot (26) TIE Bomber (18), TIE Shuttle (0), Experimental Interface (3), Systems Officer (2), Fleet Officer (3)

Not understanding experimental interface on this build .. fleet officer is automatic when you do a green move, then use system officer to give two ships a focus (including the ship it's on if needed) .. twin ion engine would be a better modification choice to help clear the stress from sys officer, and make fleet officer trigger again .. otherwise, if you barrel roll with the bomber, then use experimental to use system officer, now you have double stress...

5 hours ago, JediRush24 said:

Not understanding experimental interface on this build .. fleet officer is automatic when you do a green move, then use system officer to give two ships a focus (including the ship it's on if needed) .. twin ion engine would be a better modification choice to help clear the stress from sys officer, and make fleet officer trigger again .. otherwise, if you barrel roll with the bomber, then use experimental to use system officer, now you have double stress...

Yep, the System officer is automatic, hands out a target lock to another ship, then you can use your action to use Fleet Officer; however I have found several times that I would have liked to be able to barrell roll to block and still trigger the Fleet Officer to hand our focus tokens. It's a move I've used several times in local games and to me it has been worth it, the sudden block/roll & Fleet Support has helped me win at least a couple of matches, it does take a couple of turns to clear the stress but I've been playing with other options like having another ship with Wingman stay close by or another crew capable ship with Inspiring Recruit on it.

The other options I've worked with in that slot are the Twin Ion Engine (as you mentioned) and Lightweight Frame (for the extra defense). Both of which have worked really well also.

i find defenders are weaker than soontir when it comes to TLTs, bombs havent been a big thing in my local meta for a long time, i'd say stick with vader fel and inquisitor and try to tail bombers off-center and at range 3 so you can barrel roll away from bombs, i'd also consider switching EU for SD to help vader stay alive

perhaps something like this:

1. Darth Vader: 33
   1. TIE/x1
   2. ATC
   3. A Score To Settle
   4. Stealth Device
2. Soontir Fel: 35
   1. Royal Guard TIE
   2. PTL
   3. Autothrusters
   4. Stealth Device
3. Inquisitor: 31
   1. TIE/v1
   2. Autothrusters
   3. Outmaneuver
4. 99/100

stealth device on vader helps keep him alive, you COULD drop ATC to AC for a 2 pt bid, it's more reliable but will deal less damage, i personally think outmaneuver is better than PTL for the inquisitor versus turrets it it up to you

If yall grab a copy of imperial veterans, I highly suggest vessary with tie d and Ion cannon,because he will stun the bombers from doing their tricks, keep r2d2 ships from regeneration, and it's two attacks with target lock. Pair him up with omega leader with juke an coms relay, then go vader with title, atc, eu, and Juke. I have been having a lot of success against many meta builds with this list. All imperial ace builds are tricky, but it just takes practice, and I do agree that playing with meta lists teach you a lot,plus you might actually find it really fun too.

On February 14, 2017 at 8:00 PM, TheOz said:

If yall grab a copy of imperial veterans, I highly suggest vessary with tie d and Ion cannon,because he will stun the bombers from doing their tricks, keep r2d2 ships from regeneration, and it's two attacks with target lock. Pair him up with omega leader with juke an coms relay, then go vader with title, atc, eu, and Juke. I have been having a lot of success against many meta builds with this list. All imperial ace builds are tricky, but it just takes practice, and I do agree that playing with meta lists teach you a lot,plus you might actually find it really fun too.

That actually sounds pretty sweet.

Thanks for the further suggestions and clarifications, everyone. My brother has continued to read with interest.