ive been saying most of those things to every new imperial player i see. They ask me what boxes to get early on and i point at the ImpVet box. Core + that box + 1-2 other random 15 buck expansions is the quickest and cheapest way to get into the game and not get roflstomped both by inexperience and bad card combos.

Though i am surprised he put an Awing in the list to get PTL Ryad. If the idea was the keep it cheap for a new player i'd have suggested a TIE/fo for Juke so atleast its more imp stuff. Lot of new players try to not buy multiple factions ESPECIALLY on a budget.

1 hour ago, WWHSD said:

Why would they? For a new player that's starting to build a collection, buying cards from Ebay is kind of a horrible idea unless they are trying to build a squad that needs a ton of upgrade cards. Just a quick look at Ebay has Push the Limit sitting a $6-8. I can get a new A-Wing for just over $12.

That A-Wing comes with Cluster, Concussion, and Homing Missiles, as well as Deadeye. All of those cards are useful with the Bomber included with Imperial Vets. It also comes with an A-Wing that starts creating options if the player decides to put together a Rebel squad in the future.

I've done quite well starting out between expansions and eBay, thank you. Would an A-Wing be in the Rebels 101 choices for under $101? Vineheart's suggestion of the TIE/fo for Juke is much more in order than an out-of-faction expansion.

11 minutes ago, Punning Pundit said:

True story: I know a couple that is just starting to get into the game. One is an Imperial and the other a Rebel. I've been _not_ telling the Imperial player to get Defenders, because he will stop his husband if he does.

So you've been intentionally misleading them about what's effective on the tabletop, because... you have a personal dislike for Defenders? At least that's my understanding of your statement.

That'd be like me telling a new Rebel player to avoid the K-Wing because I find Miranda Donei annoying sometimes and think it looks ugly. It seems like a jerk thing to do.

3 hours ago, PhantomFO said:

They still ask stores to carry that old product, so it's helpful to push it every once in a while.

Maybe so, but the point of the article is to help new players come up with a strong list on the cheap. That means that you don't have them add a $30 shuttle to a $100 epic ship.

And the fact is, people have won events with Triple x7s. It's a strong, forgiving list for new players.

Oh i wasn't saying it was weak at all. I was just addressing the people in the thread who were saying x7s are OP, Broken, etc.

1 minute ago, Ob3ron said:

I've done quite well starting out between expansions and eBay, thank you. Would an A-Wing be in the Rebels 101 choices for under $101? Vineheart's suggestion of the TIE/fo for Juke is much more in order than an out-of-faction expansion.

From reading the article, I got the impression that he would have suggested Imperial Aces for the source of PTL but went with the A-Wing to come in under the price limit that was set for the series.

It's easy to look back an article like this and nit-pick especially when you don't know what the constraints of the exercise were. The squad in the article is solid, it stays under the price limit, and actually uses ships that come in the core set. PTL on Ryad to help her get target locks on Vessery is a fine choice. Can the community put together better lists under $101 dollars? Of course they can. Maybe stimulating that sort of discussion was part of the point of the article.

5 minutes ago, iamfanboy said:

So you've been intentionally misleading them about what's effective on the tabletop, because... you have a personal dislike for Defenders? At least that's my understanding of your statement.

That seems like an oddly belligerent takeaway.

I read it as it's a couple getting into the game together, that probably plays each other, and the poster is not steering one toward Defenders because it would unbalance what might otherwise be a good balance when they play. (Because Defenders wreck Rebels, especially basic Rebels.)

16 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

That seems like an oddly belligerent takeaway.

I read it as it's a couple getting into the game together, that probably plays each other, and the poster is not steering one toward Defenders because it would unbalance what might otherwise be a good balance when they play. (Because Defenders wreck Rebels, especially basic Rebels.)

Because it's intentionally omitting good advice, and that is just a flawed way to get new players into a game - it gripes me when players give advice that's too obviously tainted by their biases. Eventually they'll find x7 Defenders on their own (Hell, maybe one of 'em played the TIE Fighter game and wants to buy them on his own!) and when they do, they'll look askance at the guy they trusted to give them good advice.

Certainly TIE/x7s will stomp a lot of Rebel squads, and I'd gently steer away noncompetitive players from them myself. But they're adults and should at least know what the best options are, not be told "Don't get this" when it's a solid choice for beginners and veterans alike.

Especially when the box also comes with lots of fun other options and good cards.

29 minutes ago, Ob3ron said:

I've done quite well starting out between expansions and eBay, thank you. Would an A-Wing be in the Rebels 101 choices for under $101? Vineheart's suggestion of the TIE/fo for Juke is much more in order than an out-of-faction expansion.

PTL Ryad is still stronger but only just, especially w/o Mk2 engines (which you have to buy the god awful Punisher to get). Offensively off hand i'd say its about the same, you on average have less hits but unless they had a focus (if you have higher than Ryad ships attacking they probably dont have a focus by now) they have less defense and its 100% passive long as you move 3+ speed.

Juke Ryad was my go-to until i noticed with MK2 engines she effectively has 14 greens to destress on and her ability almost completely removes the need for a turn anyway. If you are trying to avoid buying non-imperials i'd go with the juke, as Omega Leader is always a good snag anyway case you wanna mix things up (Comm relay comes in that box too). The Awing does literally nothing but give you a PTL, which eventually you are going to want the Imp Aces box and it has PTL as well.

As for Rebels 101 i'd have to dig into it but off hand i'd say no for Awing inclusion. Awings are really, REALLY bad without the cards in Rebel Aces, and half that expansion is pretty dead right now.

38 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

From reading the article, I got the impression that he would have suggested Imperial Aces for the source of PTL but went with the A-Wing to come in under the price limit that was set for the series.

It's easy to look back an article like this and nit-pick especially when you don't know what the constraints of the exercise were. The squad in the article is solid, it stays under the price limit, and actually uses ships that come in the core set. PTL on Ryad to help her get target locks on Vessery is a fine choice. Can the community put together better lists under $101 dollars? Of course they can. Maybe stimulating that sort of discussion was part of the point of the article.

I created a post over in the squad building sub-forum to start collecting the forum community's effort at doing a better job than Zach Bunn. The first post gives the rules and an example and I've saved space to link to posts with squads to make them easy to find.

5 hours ago, TBot said:

Haha I enjoyed the article and I think it will be a great read for anyone new to the game. I was just trolling all the people who complain about X7.

Ha ha. Why isn't this thread in the "I only post to be annoying" folder.

Ive never felt like x7 title was some super annoying/gamebreaking card, either using it or facing it. It makes the defender actually DO SOMETHING without investing heavily into it. Previously Defenders were outright terrible except in a few key builds and even then they were incredibly hard to use right to get their cost back. Its one token and a big enough price cut to bring a third defender or Palpmobile, not like thats the end of the world or anything. Now theyre so well-rounded you can slap an x7 Delta into any list and it'll do work. Defenders arent broken, theyre just so solid people think theyre broken. x7 defenders have very, very few flaws.

No, the only thing Imps got i find incredibly annoying and obnoxious to deal with is Omega Leader. And along with all the other shenanigans they god, OL can be countered either by a certain ship build or playstyle; hes only a true problem if youre dumb enough to let him get a 1on1 with you.

37 minutes ago, iamfanboy said:

So you've been intentionally misleading them about what's effective on the tabletop, because... you have a personal dislike for Defenders? At least that's my understanding of your statement.

That'd be like me telling a new Rebel player to avoid the K-Wing because I find Miranda Donei annoying sometimes and think it looks ugly. It seems like a jerk thing to do.

I actually love Defenders, and think that they're incredibly solid.

The issue is that the Rebel player simply will not have the tools to deal with Defenders for a while. Until the Rebel player does, the Imperial player has a large advantage.

And yes: I am trying to get them a K-Wing to even things up. They just got an E-Wing, and I've been teaching them why Corran is so good.

The problem is that good Rebel builds are complicated, with several moving parts. Defenders give you the same amount of power, but it's much easier to access that power. That's going to frustrated the Rebel player of the same skill.

If I was _just_ playing with the Imperial player, they would have had Defenders on day 1.

47 minutes ago, iamfanboy said:

Because it's intentionally omitting good advice, and that is just a flawed way to get new players into a game - it gripes me when players give advice that's too obviously tainted by their biases.

Why do you assume I haven't told them how good Defenders are? Why do you assume that I haven't told them exactly what I'm telling you?

I hope this continues and heralds a slow down in wave releases.

2-3 ships per faction per year would be nice. And articles reaching back and showing new players old ships is good for everyone.

If we get a Rebel Vets, an Assault Gunboat, a leaked FO ship from Ep 8, a Cloakshape, a Skipray, the CROC and a campaign release, that'll be a full year for me.

1 hour ago, iamfanboy said:

it gripes me when players give advice that's too obviously tainted by their biases.

If nobody claims "Biased Taint" as a band name by the time I learn guitar ... dibs.

34 minutes ago, Lobokai said:

I hope this continues and heralds a slow down in wave releases.

2-3 ships per faction per year would be nice. And articles reaching back and showing new players old ships is good for everyone.

If we get a Rebel Vets, an Assault Gunboat, a leaked FO ship from Ep 8, a Cloakshape, a Skipray, the CROC and a campaign release, that'll be a full year for me.

Yes! If we only got 3 "new" ships per year, but aces and options packs for existing ships, I'd be a happy man. I don't want, for instance, to buy a new Lambda (I've already got 2), but I'd love to have a pack that gives me a bunch of new upgrades, a couple new titles, etc. I've got 6 Y-Wings and 8 Z-95s, but I'd love to have more pilots and upgrades and titles for them. If those upgrades and pilots came bundled with, say a new E-Wing model (plus fixes!) I'd be very much ok with that.

I guess what I'm saying is: less new ships, more most wanted.

This threads starting to go a little side ways.. as a newb I'd like to play the Rebel faction, X-Wings have always been my favourite. Can you build a competitive Rebel list for 101?

9 minutes ago, FrogTrigger said:

This threads starting to go a little side ways.. as a newb I'd like to play the Rebel faction, X-Wings have always been my favourite. Can you build a competitive Rebel list for 101?

We prefer "this thread is starting to barrel roll"

But yes, a good 101 can be done. The squad build sub-forum is staring to explore the under 101 options.

Scum do this best, IMO, but really 101 off miniaturemarket or Amazon or at your FLGS can do an aweful lot in any faction. The trap is not to have to have the optimized list everytime. You can get really close and do most anything well, it just will be 1-3 points of tourney ready crazy good.

Moderation and contentment with a rather small price of entry can make XWing pretty easy to start.

2 hours ago, FrogTrigger said:

This threads starting to go a little side ways.. as a newb I'd like to play the Rebel faction, X-Wings have always been my favourite. Can you build a competitive Rebel list for 101?

Well, I can only assume there will be 2 more threads in this vein (Rebels and Scum) while we wait for news about Wave XI.

9 hours ago, FrogTrigger said:

So I am a new player looking to get into X-Wing, I was actually going to make a post asking this exact question, so great job FFG! However this article might as well be written in chinese for me as I can't understand any of it. I don't expect them to hold my hand through every step, but if you are appealing to new players perhaps a better explanation of how the game works in connection with these pilots/upgrades would help.

Maybe he is doing a good job and I am just that much of newb. As a new player right now after reading that article I am actually LESS likely to buy it as I am just so confused now.

The rules, learn to play, and FAQ are free to download if you need further explanation. there are also tons of great articles and video blogs regarding the basics of play out there, as well as the tutorial videos FFG released at the launch of this game. https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/x-wing/#/support-section

2 hours ago, FrogTrigger said:

This threads starting to go a little side ways.. as a newb I'd like to play the Rebel faction, X-Wings have always been my favourite. Can you build a competitive Rebel list for 101?

Totally! the Heroes of the Resistance actually comes with some pretty good stuff. the REY pilot with Finn crew alone is great. Its also got a T-70 in there with a higher pilot skill Poe Dameron as well. There are squad building apps out there that will let you plug only the ships in your ''collection'' so you can see exactly what you can put together with just the ships you own (or plan to own) and also makes available exactly which upgrades and how many of them come with each expansion.

5 hours ago, Punning Pundit said:

Why do you assume I haven't told them how good Defenders are? Why do you assume that I haven't told them exactly what I'm telling you?

Because I misunderstood what you said, and your emphasis on the 'not', and I apologize. I was wrong.

It's funny to think that, whilst successful players are steaming away with Paratinni, the forums are still hung up on X7.

On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 6:22 PM, FrogTrigger said:

This threads starting to go a little side ways.. as a newb I'd like to play the Rebel faction, X-Wings have always been my favourite. Can you build a competitive Rebel list for 101?

Challenge Accepted

Original Core set: $29.99 (can be found on sale for as low as 20$)
X-Wing: $12.79
T-70: $11.99
Heroes of the Resistance: $33.99
Total: $88.76. Pick something fun to get you up to 100 and free shipping.

http://www.miniaturemarket.com/table-top-miniatures/x-wing.html#/?_=1&page=1

These will let you build the following. A fellow took something similar to a casual game night (tournament style w/ 16 people, 3 games ea) and was one of 2 people to go 3w/0L and he had top MOV.

Biggs Darklighter:
R5 Astromech
Integrated Astromech

Jess Pava:
BB-8
Integrated Astromech

Blue Squadron Novice:
Targeting Astromech
Integrated Astromech

Rookie Pilot:

This is a 4 ship rebel build that will, with practice, do okay in a competitive environment. To really make the x-wings shine you may want to add the rebel transport, the new core set, and another T-70 blister (for the fourth Integrated astromech) as your next three items and then you'd be able to tweak the list a bit better.

I wish that we had as much access to cheap goods in Canada, everything is priced so high here and we rarely see a sale :/ But I appreciate the effort on that list. My LGS actually had a sale yesterday but they were sold out of the core, had a Regionals with 38 people show up and multiples on a waiting list. This is why I want to jump ship to X-Wing