18 minutes ago, Zura said:

If a new player starts a collection and wants to play at his local store, sure, go for defenders. Forgiving to fly, ptl-interceptor like stack each turn without stress and 6 hp to back it up and you can get your stack even with k-turn which even if your opponent predicts, usually cannot do anything about this and even if they do, the profits from such counterplay are minimal. So, great ship not to get stomped.

But if there are two new players starting, imp vets are the worst thing to give them. Let's say one of them will run 2 x wings and e wing or some other noob squad with what he has and the other will run x7 defenders. They will not even land a single hit on x7 defenders. To defeat them, you have to struggle really hard BEFORE the game even starts to make a list that is capable of going through the token stack every turn. It's not how you introduce players.

Sure it is

You just have to introduce rebel players to effective rebel ships

And hope ffg actually realises similar new player friendly imp vets style pack

Imo heroes does not come close to cutting it, but the K does with just miranda TLT

Well, of course, it's FFG, so they won't mention that you can get PTL off eBay for less than half the price of the A-Wing and still have enough to buy Veteran Instincts or Extra Munitions, which might make the TIE Bomber from Imp Vets useful.

7 minutes ago, Zura said:

Wait, literally every ship in the game except big fat turret is fragile if we think this way, lol.

I have to say, I'm glad Zach Bunn didn't say, "Go buy a Decimator." Not that he would, since he likes aces so much. I'm glad to see the suggested ships at least have to focus on keeping things in arc (though admittedly, the TIE defender is the best small ship for that), and are not primary weapon turrets. I think PWTs are okay, but probably not the best to get beginner started on that.

But what do you think the chances are that the Rebel 101 topic will say, "Go buy the Millennium Falcon"? I think it's pretty high. If I were helping somebody build a squad for $100 USD or less, I'd say:

TFA Core Set
Heroes of the Resistance
T-70 expansion pack

I think there are a lot of goodies in there, and you'll be able to run a good triple T-70 squad, and you'll have the Millennium Falcon to try out as well. Though, an argument could be made that the K-wing would be a better investment than the T-70. I just like Integrated Astromech a lot.

Oh, and one last thing - I know he had to keep it to $101 USD, but I'd totally spend the extra $15 to get Imperial Aces instead of the A-wing.

God forbid FFG try to attract new players to what is now a daunting game to buy-in to initially.

Thinking about it, heroes would be a fair match if it had gunner

I detest pwts, but an EH (core) hotshot Co gunner falcon is a match for chewy but stiff defenders

Or will be when the players learn not to joust v defenders

1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

but the K does with just miranda TLT

Han Solo (TFA) (46)
Lone Wolf (2)
Gunner (5)
Chewbacca (4)

Miranda Doni (29)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Extra Munitions (2)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)
Bodhi Rook (1)
Seismic Charges (2)
Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

This qualifies as fake news.

1 minute ago, Tvboy said:

This qualifies as fake news.

Only if "fake news" means "news you dont care to hear."

Which these days, seems to be the meaning, so whatever.

Just now, Rakaydos said:

Only if "fake news" means "news you dont care to hear."

Which these days, seems to be the meaning, so whatever.

As in, it was posted on FFG's news page, but there is nothing new in it.

I think this was an amazing article. As a new player, I very recently went through an hours-upon-hours identical process of researching and trying to figure out a cheap, 100-point list that wouldn't fold. This article went through the perfect thought process for a tournament-inclined new player, taking into account where upgrades can be found, etc. The only thing that would have made it better would be if he had included the actual tournament triple-Defenders list so you could see what you could work towards. Well done, FFG!

Honestly, as somebody relatively new to X-Wing, this is basically the official version of posts, articles and podcasts (Mynock comes to mind) I've seen and read about starting X-Wing and budgeting. It's all useless to me now, I'm like half a dozen ships in and probably over the 101 budget and already know I want Veterans (and maybe Aces instead of the A), but it's pretty good content. Team Covenant's unboxings and recordings of games helped me get into XWM. It is also interesting and good that their "budget" tourney build is not a traditional "netlist" with x7 defenders, and it uses basically old content at this point. Original Core, Imperial Veterans (which was just under a year ago, and two waves and an aces-type pack ago) and the original A just to get PTL. Like how I bought a Phantom to get FCS and Tactician... for my U-Wing.

1 hour ago, Ob3ron said:

Well, of course, it's FFG, so they won't mention that you can get PTL off eBay for less than half the price of the A-Wing and still have enough to buy Veteran Instincts or Extra Munitions, which might make the TIE Bomber from Imp Vets useful.

Why would they? For a new player that's starting to build a collection, buying cards from Ebay is kind of a horrible idea unless they are trying to build a squad that needs a ton of upgrade cards. Just a quick look at Ebay has Push the Limit sitting a $6-8. I can get a new A-Wing for just over $12.

That A-Wing comes with Cluster, Concussion, and Homing Missiles, as well as Deadeye. All of those cards are useful with the Bomber included with Imperial Vets. It also comes with an A-Wing that starts creating options if the player decides to put together a Rebel squad in the future.

For me, I liked the article and have already book marked it. I'm going to save the squad and try it next time.

I don't understand the issue with FFG having an news article about their game and a way to play it. Well done FFG!.

44 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

As in, it was posted on FFG's news page, but there is nothing new in it.

It's basically an opinion piece, which are reasonably common from news sources.

And in this article you have the bigest problem of this game, only overcomed by the lack of diversity in missions, to force buying a ship outside your faction only for the cards.

I choosed Imperial because, bla, bla ,bla and I´m going to buy an a-wing that I will never play. Really? This at least is a stupid case, if you want so badly PTL for 8 bucks more you have the imperial aces.

When you want, autothruster, engine upgrade or experimental interface and your imperial your f**ed

Some people says that GW is the origin of all the bad in the world, but I don´t remenber when I had to buy a carnifex to put a power fist and an eldar farseer to the iron halo for a space marine captain.

PD: and sure buy the old core, ok for me tie LN are better than the FO but again if you want the new dame deck....

2 minutes ago, Daigotsu Arashi said:

And in this article you have the bigest problem of this game, only overcomed by the lack of diversity in missions, to force buying a ship outside your faction only for the cards.

I choosed Imperial because, bla, bla ,bla and I´m going to buy an a-wing that I will never play. Really? This at least is a stupid case, if you want so badly PTL for 8 bucks more you have the imperial aces.

When you want, autothruster, engine upgrade or experimental interface and your imperial your f**ed

Some people says that GW is the origin of all the bad in the world, but I don´t remenber when I had to buy a carnifex to put a power fist and an eldar farseer to the iron halo for a space marine captain.

PD: and sure buy the old core, ok for me tie LN are better than the FO but again if you want the new dame deck....

on the flip side, given the article recommends imp vet defenders, you don't need PTL at all

in fact, only Ryad is actually any good with PTL and she doesn't even need it to be good

7 minutes ago, Daigotsu Arashi said:

And in this article you have the bigest problem of this game, only overcomed by the lack of diversity in missions, to force buying a ship outside your faction only for the cards.

I choosed Imperial because, bla, bla ,bla and I´m going to buy an a-wing that I will never play. Really? This at least is a stupid case, if you want so badly PTL for 8 bucks more you have the imperial aces.

When you want, autothruster, engine upgrade or experimental interface and your imperial your f**ed

Some people says that GW is the origin of all the bad in the world, but I don´t remenber when I had to buy a carnifex to put a power fist and an eldar farseer to the iron halo for a space marine captain.

PD: and sure buy the old core, ok for me tie LN are better than the FO but again if you want the new dame deck....

For an article written for FFG, suggesting a secondary market mode of purchase would be a bad idea. At best, it would be edited out and the author given a warning. At worst, the article is not put up and, in this case, damage Team Covenant's relationship with FFG. Most people getting into the game would know that a secondary market for items is almost assured for this type of game. Yeah, you'll have some people fresh to even tabletop games, but they can still learn and make decisions on their own.

Yeah, I thought the A-wing purchase for PTL was a bad choice for starting, particularly when you had no Mk2 Engines make it work fully.

One FO blister, Imperial Veterans, TIE Defender blister, and a Core would get you the out of the box top tier Omega Leader, and then two x7 Defenders, one with Predator, one with Outmaneuver.

25 minutes ago, Daigotsu Arashi said:

And in this article you have the bigest problem of this game, only overcomed by the lack of diversity in missions, to force buying a ship outside your faction only for the cards.

I will say that this is one of the things that bugs me a fair bit. Being as much a collector as a player of the game I don't I would have purchased quite so much of the faction I have yet to field.

I don't like these kinds of articles because they seem to me to be deceptive to new players, making them believe that they can build a competitive list for just such-n-such amount of money (I've seen these articles written for MtG and other games as well), but the lists are never optimal. At the beginning of the article the writer states that the goal is to build a list that he would be comfortable taking to a tournament. By the end of the article the goal has become to provide 'a jumping off point'. Which is it?

Maybe the writer will actually take this squad to an important tournament, but I kinda doubt it.

3 minutes ago, Helias de Nappo said:

I don't like these kinds of articles because they seem to me to be deceptive to new players, making them believe that they can build a competitive list for just such-n-such amount of money (I've seen these articles written for MtG and other games as well), but the lists are never optimal. At the beginning of the article the writer states that the goal is to build a list that he would be comfortable taking to a tournament. By the end of the article the goal has become to provide 'a jumping off point'. Which is it?

Maybe the writer will actually take this squad to an important tournament, but I kinda doubt it.

eh...

I understand the reservations based on the articles wording, but it is true you could take 3 x7s to a tournament and expect to do quite well

2 x7s and a thing (like a pair of ties) is slightly more difficult, but it's still two x7s

52 minutes ago, Daigotsu Arashi said:

And in this article you have the bigest problem of this game, only overcomed by the lack of diversity in missions, to force buying a ship outside your faction only for the cards.

I choosed Imperial because, bla, bla ,bla and I´m going to buy an a-wing that I will never play. Really? This at least is a stupid case, if you want so badly PTL for 8 bucks more you have the imperial aces.

When you want, autothruster, engine upgrade or experimental interface and your imperial your f**ed

Some people says that GW is the origin of all the bad in the world, but I don´t remenber when I had to buy a carnifex to put a power fist and an eldar farseer to the iron halo for a space marine captain.

PD: and sure buy the old core, ok for me tie LN are better than the FO but again if you want the new dame deck....

Maybe my experience is atypical but most people I know don't just play just a single faction. They may play mostly one faction at tournaments but for league and casual play they break out stuff from the the other two factions that look fun.

1 minute ago, ficklegreendice said:

eh...

I understand the reservations based on the articles wording, but it is true you could take 3 x7s to a tournament and expect to do quite well

2 x7s and a thing (like a pair of ties) is slightly more difficult, but it's still two x7s

And nowhere in the article does it state that it's meant to be a competitive build, just a good solid one to play with.

6 minutes ago, Helias de Nappo said:

I don't like these kinds of articles because they seem to me to be deceptive to new players, making them believe that they can build a competitive list for just such-n-such amount of money (I've seen these articles written for MtG and other games as well), but the lists are never optimal. At the beginning of the article the writer states that the goal is to build a list that he would be comfortable taking to a tournament. By the end of the article the goal has become to provide 'a jumping off point'. Which is it?

Maybe the writer will actually take this squad to an important tournament, but I kinda doubt it.

That's a really solid squad. Ryad probably won't use PTL every round, mostly just to get a TL for Vessery and then to barrel-roll when needed or to refresh the TL if she needed to use it.

Those two TIE Fighters are either taken out early meaning that they Defenders have probably taken something out or they are ignored and have an opportunity to do some damage.

A strong player could probably do well with that squad and its a **** sight better than most of the jank that I see players with a core set and a couple of expansions bringing to their first tournament.

3 hours ago, Zura said:

But if there are two new players starting, imp vets are the worst thing to give them. Let's say one of them will run 2 x wings and e wing or some other noob squad with what he has and the other will run x7 defenders. They will not even land a single hit on x7 defenders. To defeat them, you have to struggle really hard BEFORE the game even starts to make a list that is capable of going through the token stack every turn. It's not how you introduce players.

True story: I know a couple that is just starting to get into the game. One is an Imperial and the other a Rebel. I've been _not_ telling the Imperial player to get Defenders, because he will stop his husband if he does.