So, Carbon Freezing chamber was just spoiled and it's text is:

Claim: Choose a character die. That die cannot be rolled during the next round.

There are two ways to interpret this text. The more popular interpretation is that you may choose a die that is not in the dice pool. However, I am confused by this because, afaik, there is no way in Destiny to affect dice that are not in the dice pool. I interpreted the text to mean that you must choose a die that is in the pool. What do you think?

You choose a character die as the card instructs you. This is similar to Prized Possession. This has nothing to do with the dice pool.

P/. 10 of the RRG

DICE ON CARDS
When dice are not in a dice pool, they are placed on their
matching card.
••These dice are not active, cannot be manipulated, and none
of their sides are considered to be showing.

Doesn't this say that you can't choose a dice not in the dice pool? I know that choosing a dice does not manipulate it, but what does it mean that the dice are "not active?"

No, it says you can't 'manipulate' it. Choosing = targeting in Destiny parlance. There's nothing in the rules that prohibit you from targeting dice, active or otherwise.

A non-active die is not in the dice pool and cannot be removed from the pool. There are many cards/abilities that allow dice to be removed from the pool. You cannot use those ability to remove a non-active die before it is rolled. In the case of Possession or Carbon, the die is basically set aside or not rolled at all. It cannot enter the dice pool.

You can only target die in the dice pool, so it would have to be rolled.

22 minutes ago, Razerbladz said:

You can only target die in the dice pool, so it would have to be rolled.

Patently false.

To borrow a phrase from X-Wing, "Do what the card says. Don't do what the card doesn't say." There's nothing on the card putting a condition on the die you choose other than it being a character die. Nothing about it being in the pool, nothing about it being on the card, just "Choose a character die." So do that.

1 hour ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

Patently false.

I think I agree with you so far as Freezing Chamber is concerned, but it's not clear from the rules. Dice on the card are Inactive...whatever that means. Could be this is another game concept that didn't make it into the rules.

Also, I'm not sure Prized Possession can be used on an inactive die. Since PP removes the die, it would need to be in the dice pool in order to eligible to target for a remove action? What counts as manipulation? Common use would suggest changing the face of a dice. But Destiny needs to define terms like this to provide clarity.

Yeah, PP is a hard one. It is so wordy they may rely on the key word remove rather than clearly stating dice pool, however dice can also be removed from play that are not in the dice pool, such as a character defeat or upgrade leaving play. That will need to be addressed if by remove they mean from the dice pool, character card or either.

1 hour ago, kingbobb said:

I think I agree with you so far as Freezing Chamber is concerned, but it's not clear from the rules. Dice on the card are Inactive...whatever that means. Could be this is another game concept that didn't make it into the rules.

Also, I'm not sure Prized Possession can be used on an inactive die. Since PP removes the die, it would need to be in the dice pool in order to eligible to target for a remove action? What counts as manipulation? Common use would suggest changing the face of a dice. But Destiny needs to define terms like this to provide clarity.

Active or inactive, the die still exists and you can still choose it.

1 hour ago, KrisWall said:

Active or inactive, the die still exists and you can still choose it.

I don't believe this is true. From the rule book...

REMOVING DICE
Removing dice moves them from a player’s dice pool back to their matching card.

• A die cannot be removed unless it is in a player’s dice pool.
• If dice of a specific symbol must be removed to trigger an effect, then it does not matter if those dice can currently be resolved. Symbols that are modifiers or require a resource match still count as that symbol.

In the case of Prized Possession, the die gets removed and placed on the Prized Possession, but I don't see any reason why it would not follow the other rules of removing dice. Thus if the die is not in their active pool, it can not be removed.

If it's not following one rule why would it follow any of them? I think Mep pretty much has it wrapped up where PP is concerned; about the battleground there should be no question.

1 minute ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

If it's not following one rule why would it follow any of them? I think Mep pretty much has it wrapped up where PP is concerned; about the battleground there should be no question.

Because it doesn't say that it can remove any die, even if it is not in a players active pool.

And thus enters the Golden Rule from the rule book...

THE GOLDEN RULE

If the text of a card directly contradicts the rules of the game, the text of the card takes precedence. If you can follow both the rules of the game and the text of the card, do so.

So the only part of the card that contradicts the rules is where you place the die when you remove it. And since you can follow the other rules for removing a die, then you should.

Mep's point was that the text on PP might have been more... universal, rather than specifically referring to the 'remove' function in the RRG. We're sort of clued into the fact that this is a non-standard use of the word 'remove' because it's not following the rules in the book. Lack of universal card templating and inconsistent wording are hallmarks of FFG game design, unfortunately. The best we can do is use context clues.

Were you guys around when the X-Wing designers admitted that "sometimes the word 'may' means 'can,' and sometimes it means 'must'"? Yeah, those were fun days. It's like déjà vu all over again.

That may be the case, but until they release an FAQ specifically stating how the card should be resolved, I'd rule that it, like every other instance of "remove a die", can only target dice in a players active pool.

From a balance perspective, I see no problem with it removing any die. It costs 4 resources, it better be a strong effect.

52 minutes ago, CBowser said:

I don't believe this is true. From the rule book...

REMOVING DICE
Removing dice moves them from a player’s dice pool back to their matching card.

• A die cannot be removed unless it is in a player’s dice pool.
• If dice of a specific symbol must be removed to trigger an effect, then it does not matter if those dice can currently be resolved. Symbols that are modifiers or require a resource match still count as that symbol.

In the case of Prized Possession, the die gets removed and placed on the Prized Possession, but I don't see any reason why it would not follow the other rules of removing dice. Thus if the die is not in their active pool, it can not be removed.

You're not removing it in the case of Freezing Chamber. You're choosing it. You're pointing at it and saying, "That one."

It depends on if choosing it for a card effect is considered "manipulating it". Denying it from bring rolled seems like manipulating it.

Once again, from the rule book...

" When dice are not in a dice pool, they are placed on their matching card. • These dice are not active, cannot be manipulated, and none of their sides are considered to be showing. "

If it is considered manipulating it then by rule, it would not be a legal target...

"When making a choice, a player cannot choose invalid targets, e.g., they cannot deal damage to a defeated character. If there are no valid targets, then the card does nothing."

Once again, without an FAQ, we are left to guess. But certainly an argument can be made either way.

Freezing chamber is not ambiguous. PP actually is. Keywords like Remove should be bolded and normal English use words can be plain text. In PP's case it does not say anything about dice pool, so it could be remove from player card, dice pool, or both.

My belief is that it is either or, based on the rest of the text of the card. "Remove' seems to be normal English use rather than the keyword used to remove dice from the pool.

Hopefully they will do some additional type setting when they republish Awakenings.

15 hours ago, CBowser said:

I don't believe this is true. From the rule book...

REMOVING DICE
Removing dice moves them from a player’s dice pool back to their matching card.

• A die cannot be removed unless it is in a player’s dice pool.
• If dice of a specific symbol must be removed to trigger an effect, then it does not matter if those dice can currently be resolved. Symbols that are modifiers or require a resource match still count as that symbol.

In the case of Prized Possession, the die gets removed and placed on the Prized Possession, but I don't see any reason why it would not follow the other rules of removing dice. Thus if the die is not in their active pool, it can not be removed.

"Claim: Choose a character die. That die cannot be rolled during the next round."

The word 'remove' doesn't exist in the card's text. I'm not sure why you think those rules are relevant.

This was in reference to Prized Possession, not Carbon Freezing Chamber.

32 minutes ago, CBowser said:

This was in reference to Prized Possession, not Carbon Freezing Chamber.

Understood. I would agree that Prized Possession requires removal of a die and that only dice in the pool can be removed. Carbon Freezing Chamber does not require removal, so can be used on unrolled dice.

27 minutes ago, KrisWall said:

Understood. I would agree that Prized Possession requires removal of a die and that only dice in the pool can be removed. Carbon Freezing Chamber does not require removal, so can be used on unrolled dice.

I agree with this also. As of now I let my friends play PP either way but I interpret it as only removing from pool. CFC however does seem to imply just choosing so u could choose anything at that time.

Not sure why you'd ever want to do this, but can you choose a set-aside Death Trooper die from Krennic's ability?

1 hour ago, Network57 said:

Not sure why you'd ever want to do this, but can you choose a set-aside Death Trooper die from Krennic's ability?

The chamber doesn't actually set the chosen die aside, so I'd guess no.

The Death Trooper's die from Krennic's ability would leave the game at some point and come back, could be a different die at that point.

Also there's this from the Rules Reference:

A character die is a die that matches a character.

Or this:

Is a character die any die that the character has?

• No. A character die is a die that corresponds to the character card. An upgrade is never a character die and is always called out by card text as an upgrade die.

Does that Death Trooper die count as a character die? In the case of the Death Trooper, it doesn't match a character card that's in the game.