Always loved the tie bomber, but even with imperial veterans, I cannot seem to make them really shine. Specifically, I am referring to generic bombers, like scimitar, gamma or gamma vet. Bombs themselves certainly earn their keep, bu I want to send ordnance downrange, but it's hard to pull off and often doesn't give enough payoff for the effort. I don't need to sweep worlds with bomber spam, but I'd like a respectable, effective tie bomber build. Here is the best I've been able to come up with:

Gamma Vet

EM, Homing, predator, LRS, and detonators. I also like to add prockets, but it's another 3 points, but often catches an opponent by surprise.

LRS lets me get the lock and homing lets me keep it. predator does the job of chips since I cannot take both, and helps out the primary attack as well. It also works well for prockets.

BUT it's 32 points without prockets!

I've tried a "face puncher" variant as well, which takes advantage of the fact that people want to close range with the bomber. I've tried clusters, prockets, even advanced torps up close.

bottom line, the bomber builds seem to be inconsistent and expensive.

I realize that I could go single homing single bomb, drop EM, etc. But then it seems like you are paying a lot still for 1 attack, and I generally find I manage to drop all my bombs, so EM seems to be worth it.

So, community, inspire me with awesome bomber builds. I prefer Generics, but If you've got something great with a named guy, I'll give it a whirl.

Let's make the bomber great again (let's be honest, it was never great) Ok , lets make the bomber a feared instrument of imperial oppression !

I would think Jonus is still a great addition to a bomber list. Perhaps something like this?

Captain Jonus w/ TIE shuttle, Fleet Officer, Systems Officer, Wired

Scimitar w/ Plasma Torpedoes, Thermal Detonators, Extra Munitions, LRS x3

That way, your Scimitars can all take TL before the engagement via LRS, they get to reroll 2 dice per attack, and get a focus for offense and defense from Jonus. After the alpha attack, one of them can bump into someone else to stay at range, and Jonus can pass a TL+F so you can get a second plasma shot - the other two can go 1 forward and 4 forward to stagger them all out and create a kill zone for the following round Thermals.

I think it's worth a go, but that's a lot of expensive support. It's kinda like the hawk focus battery, it's a lot of points in a 100 point game and it dies quick, but I'll give it a go and see how it does. After the intial joust / bomb run, a lot of times my formation is broken up, so i wonder how jonus will be after the alpha.

Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)
Crack Shot (1)
Extra Munitions (2)
Homing Missiles (5)
Long-Range Scanners (0)

Total: 27

This guy can put the TL on someone at range and then blast them once close enough. If you pick someone that is worth more than 27 pts....and they stay out of the fight for a few turns, then you are doing fine for keeping them out of the fight for a few turns. I think it's also possible to switch targets on someone at the last minute. You don't get the TL + Focus combo, but you get TL and Crackshot combo.

Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)
Deadeye (1)
Extra Munitions (2)
Homing Missiles (5)
Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 27

This guy can save the Focus to modify the dice after he fires. He's not getting the TL + Focus that the first one is, but he's easier to get the shot off. He's still getting 4 dice + Focus + GC. Yes, not quite as good, but not bad.

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)
Extra Munitions (2)
Concussion Missiles (4)
Long-Range Scanners (0)

Total: 22

This guy is cheap and dirty. You will get a TL early and then a Focus on someone. After that, you get to modify a blank into an auto hit. No re-rolls, but chances are good for good damage.

Zeta Specialist (23)
Fire-Control System (2)
Targeting Synchronizer (3)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Special Ops Training (0)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)
Extra Munitions (2)
Homing Missiles (5)
Guidance Chips (0)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)
Extra Munitions (2)
Homing Missiles (5)
Guidance Chips (0)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)
Extra Munitions (2)
Proton Torpedoes (4)
Ion Bombs (2)
Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Simple and dirty.

I think the Veteran expansion focused on the bomber aspect of bombers instead of the ordnance aspect (mainly the mines). Not to forget the support aspect for Captian Jonus with the TIE shuttle which would never compete with the Palp shuttle. That is the problem with the Bomber fix is that it went in every direction. The TIE Defender fix did a price correction and focus on its speed (with a 5 green straight it is the fastest ship for the Imp), the link cannon was more of a secondary build. The bomber fix got stretched out over mines and support and the ordnance. Trying to make 3 builds out of one expansion is just too much.

Guidance Chips and Long Range Scanners was the fix for ordnance. It does a fine job.

LRS is powerful, i ran 2 Gammavets with Crack, LRS, Homing Missiles, EM, and Seismics for quite awhile until Black One popped up and completely neutered LRS.
I havnt touched the bombers since. F'ing hate that title.

8 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Guidance Chips and Long Range Scanners was the fix for ordnance. It does a fine job.

Except for the fact you can't equip both of them. The build is still rather lacking.

I want to try this out for a league match:

2 x PS1 Striker 34

1 x Pure Sabacc w/ trick shot 22

1 x Scimitar Bomber w/ twin ion, system officer, fleet officer 22

1 x Scimitar Bomber w/ twin ion, system officer, Operations Specialist 22

Possibly too much jank.

2 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

LRS is powerful, i ran 2 Gammavets with Crack, LRS, Homing Missiles, EM, and Seismics for quite awhile until Black One popped up and completely neutered LRS.
I havnt touched the bombers since. F'ing hate that title.

If it was a title it wouldn't be a problem. Thing is it is a modification. LRS in arc dodging meta is simply tagging someone who will never be in arc once they reach range 3. And you still have to discard your target lock unless it is HM. Given that over simple dice modification of GC and it is no brainer GC > LRS. LRS is the biggest Red Herring in the veterans.

Really? Could have fooled me because i did significantly more damage with Homing Missiles and LRS than i did with PTorps and Gchips w/ Deadeye. The whopping 1pt difference adds a lot more security in your attack. Because you dont spend the TL its entirely possible to not even need to spend it and just 1fwd (if slow target) or 5K (if fast target) and fire with just a TL the following round. Had that happen many times where if i opted to not be greedy and get a 3hit attack i could fire again next round even after a red move.

Black One unfortunately ruins that because its a terrible title against NORMAL targetlocks due to losing a moding action to discard that TL or potentially losing your shot as well. At a distance? Not even a thought, just get rid of it. I ran my 2bomber Ryad list probably 15 times against a Black One user and lost every single time due to that stupid title.

LRS isnt bad by design. Its insane IF Black One isnt around. But because of how hard its countered by Black One, not even worth the risk anymore so Deadeye/Gchips surpasses it. Considering RegenPoe is so common and it costs him nothing to take it, its bound to be a common thing to face.

2 hours ago, heychadwick said:

Guidance Chips and Long Range Scanners was the fix for ordnance. It does a fine job.

I agree that both are a vast improvement. You still need focus and TL both to really wring the most out of the ordnance though. If you could take both mods then you'd be golden. I will say I do pretty good with a brawler build

Scimitar

Prockets -these work better because you don't need a TL and you don't have to spend the focus, so it's there to modify, or for defense.

EM and chips. 4 dice only need a focus, so single action.

Bombs or mines (mines better with low PS)

2 hours ago, Marinealver said:

If it was a title it wouldn't be a problem. Thing is it is a modification. LRS in arc dodging meta is simply tagging someone who will never be in arc once they reach range 3. And you still have to discard your target lock unless it is HM. Given that over simple dice modification of GC and it is no brainer GC > LRS. LRS is the biggest Red Herring in the veterans.

Have to disagree with you here. LRS is powerful for pulling off the alpha. With homing missles, You TL right off the bat, then focus at range 3 and fire. There is a good chance you won't spend the TL, which means you can use it again as you slow roll in, or if you are burning past, laying an egg and doing the 5k, you have a TL to use as soon as you turn around. It's another reason I like prockets on these builds because you can't TL at range 1 and 2 and with prockets you really don't need to. LRS is also great if you are running vessery, because you can target lock anyone on the board for him. I didn't like LRS and was all about the chips until I ran some games with each. I want a bomber title that will let me take 3 mods. LRS, Chips, and TIE mk2. Best I can do is throw predator on a gamma vet to help make up for lack of chips. (also gives a nice boost to prockets)

Just now, Darthfish said:

Have to disagree with you here. LRS is powerful for pulling off the alpha. With homing missles, You TL right off the bat, then focus at range 3 and fire. There is a good chance you won't spend the TL, which means you can use it again as you slow roll in, or if you are burning past, laying an egg and doing the 5k, you have a TL to use as soon as you turn around. It's another reason I like prockets on these builds because you can't TL at range 1 and 2 and with prockets you really don't need to. LRS is also great if you are running vessery, because you can target lock anyone on the board for him. I didn't like LRS and was all about the chips until I ran some games with each. I want a bomber title that will let me take 3 mods. LRS, Chips, and TIE mk2

Again, you are comparing it only against a clutch build Palp Defenders. Now since Palp Defenders is such a top list right now as soon as it is no longer the gatekeeper both LRS and HM will fade into obscurity, much like all the anti-whisper builds.

No, I've run it against several different lists, and LRS with homing is superior because it has the potential to preserve the target lock. It's really not about the evade, though that's gravy, it's about improving action economy, and homing missiles at leas have the potential to do that

2 hours ago, Marinealver said:

Except for the fact you can't equip both of them. The build is still rather lacking.

Once again, I disagree, but we have already gone down that road.

12 minutes ago, Darthfish said:

I agree that both are a vast improvement. You still need focus and TL both to really wring the most out of the ordnance though.

Well, of course. You do best if you have both TL and Focus on the shot. That's the case with all attacks, isn't it? That doesn't mean that only having a TL or a Focus is bad, though.

6 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Again, you are comparing it only against a clutch build Palp Defenders. Now since Palp Defenders is such a top list right now as soon as it is no longer the gatekeeper both LRS and HM will fade into obscurity, much like all the anti-whisper builds.

Homing Missiles have always been the best missile for reliability before Palp Defenders even existed. It's great for the re-roll you get and the free no-Evade is just bonus. This combo will still be considered the best even when Palp Defenders aren't the top meta.

14 minutes ago, Darthfish said:

No, I've run it against several different lists, and LRS with homing is superior because it has the potential to preserve the target lock. It's really not about the evade, though that's gravy, it's about improving action economy, and homing missiles at leas have the potential to do that

Well, compared to Concussion missiles, Target Lock+Focus vs. Convert 1 Blank to hit+Focus isn't that different*. Proton Torpedoes, less so, since you're doubling up on focus modifications. Homing Missiles still have the highest damage, but if preventing the use of evade tokens wasn't a huge deal in this metagame, a case could be made for concussion missiles as a budget option.

*With LRS, you presumably have the target lock turn one, so you're free to take a focus action when you would be taking the target lock. Barring bumps or re-position actions, but in those cases you wouldn't even get to fire the missile/torpedo.

Homing Missiles are brought primarily for the lack of "Spend your TL..." bit, not the anti-evade token. Without LRS or Deadeye its incredibly unlikely you'll have a mod outside the ordnance specific (PTorps) or Gchips, and with a 4die attack that generally isnt enough. No idea how many PTorps ive launched only to end up with solid blanks. Thats why Homing Missiles cost 5pts even though they dont seem any deadlier than PTorps or Conc Missiles: you dont give up the rerolls to fire it.

Even before the influx of Defenders i used homing missiles alot for that very reason. The ability to back-to-back fire both missiles or reroll a complete dud of an attack was too great. Until defenders popped up with x7 title i rarely ever got the anti-evade part as palpaces arent that common around here and most ships would just focus once they saw homing missiles anyway.

awesome, but ridiculous...

Rhymer, Expertise, APT, Cluster missiles, extra munitions, lightweight frame.

Problem is homing missiles are just too expensive and all of a sudden your discount A-wing is priced the same as an X-wing. The only reason they work so well against Defenders is because Defenders is ridiculously expensive making the missile seem like the better trade.

Homing missiles like the rest of missiles and torpedoes were no where to be seen before Wave 8. Palp Aces was already an established build then. When 8 came around you still didn't see Homing Missiles (U-boats took that build away). It wasn't until Defenders became a thing which could withstand the alpha strike from Dengaroo.

Here are the three best Bomber builds. LRS and chips are both good. Bombers have been making top8's at regionals.

Scimitar - Homing Missile, Extra Munitions, LRS (23 points)

Deathfire - Concussion Missile, Cluster Mines, LRS (25 points)

Tomax Bren - Crackshot, Homing Missile, Extra Munitions, Guidance Chip (32 points)

Gamma Veterans are too expensive for the small benefits they gain over the Scimitar.

Bombers are already great, K-Wings with Sabine rock.

I've had good success with this:

Deathfire (28)

Homing Missiles

Conner Nets

Extra Munitions

Guidance Chips


A neat thing Deathfire can do is TL before dropping a Bomb, then make the long K-turn and spend the lock to fire the Homing Missiles. Conners ensure that the target can't bug out in the meantime.

The real strength of the TIE Bomber is its relative inexpensiveness which allows you to pair alpha striking with imperial late game options. My most successfull list with this concept has been this:

Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)
Crack Shot (1)
Extra Munitions (2)
Homing Missiles (5)
Long-Range Scanners (0)

Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)
Deadeye (1)
Extra Munitions (2)
Homing Missiles (5)
Guidance Chips (0)

Black Squadron Pilot (14)
Crack Shot (1)

The Inquisitor (25)
Push the Limit (3)
Autothrusters (2)
TIE/v1 (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

However the Inquisitor might not be sturdy enough nowadays, Backdraft is an interesting alternatve there.

On the topic of Long Range Scanners: They are extremely good. If you don't think they are good, you haven't figured them out. It took me a long while and the advantage over easier to fly ships isn't big, but it is what pushes Bombers into the usable territory. Some rules:

Never have more than 50% of you ships be LRS carriers. For most lists, one is all that will work, two usually only work in all Bomber lists, which have some achilles heels so I wouldn't take them into competition.

NEVER Target Lock on turn one unless you think your opponent will super-mindgame himself. I tend to have the LRS Bomber move towards the middle and tuck itself close to one of the corner asteroids. That way I am very flexible with where it moves (thereby being very likely to catch my target on turn 3) and create a big scarezone for squishies. Homing Missile (the best missile, period, evade portion is only a small bonus that you don't have to have working) with double mods and Crackshot is something nobody likes to get in front of. And as we all remember from the stress-hog hype, range 3 arc is something few ships can reliably avoid.