11 hours ago, VanderLegion said:

Virago isn't actually 3 points more. If you're using virago you'll be taking Zann or Black Sun refute (both torpedo slots) to reduce the cost of the ship, or else you can take m2 and lose the torpedo slot so you aren't taking a refit. So at worst virago is 1 cost more but you're getting evades. Otherwise it's a point cheaper with the zann refit

A fair point about using the other fixes with Virago, but I don't exactly like either of those as-is.

9 hours ago, CaptainBrochette said:

Your pilots are nice.

Guri + Black Sun refit + Autothrusters + Attani Mindlink sit at 31pts and make it a very strong choice for any attani list, maybe you can start be pricing the upgrade at -1pt instead of -2pts.
- Did you playtest an alternative version with a focus token instead of evade ? With attani mindlink, that's could be a solution more interesting than an evade token. i'm agree with you that's the lack of evade token is irritating but it's part of their DNA, like the protectorate.
- Another solution could be to change the maneuver which trigger the card : maybe "after executing a bank maneuver" (only 6 maneuvers with a limited short range maneuverability) or "after executing a turn maneuver" (only 4).

+1.
I think the starviper need to keep some distance with the Protectorate starfighter (because with this, the SV is a protectorate-wannabe with an extra shield). You already get a cost réduction with the Black sun refit, Maybe take the opposite concept and get extra ordonnance : Like, well... Maybe allow to take an additional missile or torpedo that's cost less than your equiped torpedo. (If you see the 2 Defender's title, 1 is for barebone ship et the other is to boost the use of a canon).

And for the M-2 title...
I think it could be fun with Dace Bonearm around. But Could it be effective ? I need to try it to get a real opinion about this title...

The cost im open to playing with -1 vs -2. A focus token instead of an evade does exactly nothing to boost the defense like I want. I've played a list a bunch of times with guri and manaroo mindlinked where guri will have 3-5 focus tokens on a given round. Doesn't do any good when she rolls 2-3 blank greens and explodes anyway.

Unless. I give the viper a way to get sensor cluster.

I dont love love getting extra ordnance because the ship is already so freaking expensive and I've never really had a burning desire to use torpedoes anyway.

6 hours ago, Vitalis said:

Urai is awesome. Great design here mate. Tyber may suffer Bonearm syndrome.

As for the refit:

BSR - too similar to X7 maybe instead of evade just allow it to perform BR or boost like someone mentioned BUT at the start of combat phase? Sounds fun

ZCR - nothing to add here.

MK2 - seems a bit to powerful. Effect sounds cool but combined with cost reduction its too much. Defenders got 0 pts offensive title after all too. So 0 points and it looks nice.

I think tyber is a bit more interesting than bonearm because it gives you the option of honing a large ship or totally locking down a small ship anytime you get a single ion token through. You could run the two together though

For BSR, a free boost or barrel roll still doesn't give the defensive boost I want. You can already boost or be before movement with adv sensors anyway

as for Mk 2, the offensive 0 point defender title sees pretty much no competitive play. It should have been - points as well. And this is more a control title than an offensive one. You won't do any more damage, and may well do less if you want the ion effect

Double post

I'm seeing people saying they don't like the free evade because it's too similar to the /x7 , which some argue is too good. I like tying the evade to the actual action step so you don't get it if you bump/rock, also stops it from working if you use Adv Sensors.

Then I had a different idea. Instead of a free evade (/x7) or some result based mechanic (protectorate) punish the attacker for hitting full force? Inspired by various fluff text saying that the moving fins are disconcerting because it "looks alive" plus Black Sun's nasty reputation. This makes a place for a new anti-damage mechanic that doesn't work the same as others. Might want to maintain arc emphasis with something there too (you in their arc, them in yours, in each other's...)

TL;DR here's my suggestion: with the Black Sun Refit your attacker receives a stress for each Focus and Target Lock spent while attacking you.

10 hours ago, VanderLegion said:

For BSR, a free boost or barrel roll still doesn't give the defensive boost I want. You can already boost or be before movement with adv sensors anyway

Notice the timing i proposed - at the start of combat phase. Combo that with PtL and you got ALL defensive capabilities in the world in a much more interesting package than just free evade.

10 hours ago, VanderLegion said:

as for Mk 2, the offensive 0 point defender title sees pretty much no competitive play. It should have been - points as well. And this is more a control title than an offensive one. You won't do any more damage, and may well do less if you want the ion effect

Yes but here you can combo the reductions for -6 points AND offensive boost. That a bit over the top

49 minutes ago, Vitalis said:

Yes but here you can combo the reductions for -6 points AND offensive boost. That a bit over the top

No. His Mk-2 replace the torpedo slot by an illicit slot... so, no reduction stack.

11 hours ago, VanderLegion said:

The cost im open to playing with -1 vs -2. A focus token instead of an evade does exactly nothing to boost the defense like I want. I've played a list a bunch of times with guri and manaroo mindlinked where guri will have 3-5 focus tokens on a given round. Doesn't do any good when she rolls 2-3 blank greens and explodes anyway.

Unless. I give the viper a way to get sensor cluster.

Why not. Something like the "Mist hunter title" maybe... ->

• Mandal Hypernautics line (title, starviper only. 0pt)
  Your upgrade bar gains the [illicit] upgrade icon.
  Increase your shield value by 1.
  You must equip 1 "sensor cluster" upgrade (paying the squad point cost as normal).

1 hour ago, Vitalis said:

Notice the timing i proposed - at the start of combat phase. Combo that with PtL and you got ALL defensive capabilities in the world in a much more interesting package than just free evade.

Yes but here you can combo the reductions for -6 points AND offensive boost. That a bit over the top

Like the last post said, the mk2 drops the torpedo slot and both of the refits are torpedo slot upgrades.

I did miss that the boost or be suggestion was start of combat. That'd help, though ptl doesn't combo very well with the terrible greens.

17 minutes ago, CaptainBrochette said:

No. His Mk-2 replace the torpedo slot by an illicit slot... so, no reduction stack.

Why not. Something like the "Mist hunter title" maybe... ->

• Mandal Hypernautics line (title, starviper only. 0pt)
  Your upgrade bar gains the [illicit] upgrade icon.
  Increase your shield value by 1.
  You must equip 1 "sensor cluster" upgrade (paying the squad point cost as normal).

Not terrible, though my preference would be to not do the tech slot since that's currently only on tfa era stuff

Learn from /x7. Make the free evade on your refit title a free action, and make it trigger off executing the action after performing the manoeuvre of a given speed. Then it's not bump-proof and stressproof.

30 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Learn from /x7. Make the free evade on your refit title a free action, and make it trigger off executing the action after performing the manoeuvre of a given speed. Then it's not bump-proof and stressproof.

I don't mind making it a free action and limiting to when you didn't bump, but I'm not going to limit it to when you perform the action afterward because it kills advanced sensors, which is a ton of fun on the starviper

Eh, whatever way you do it, just don't make it bump proof and stress proof.

It uses the torpedo slot. It works with Virago. It works without Virago. It's fluffy. It gives the Starviper something that sets it apart from other ships. It's in line with the the Starviper being a Heavy Starfighter instead of an Interceptor. It probably needs some tweaking.



Buzz Droids - (Torpedo)
0 points. Starviper Only.

After attacking, assign the Buzz Droids condition card to the defender if your attack hit.


Buzz Droids (Condition)
At the start of the Combat phase suffer one damage.

Action: Discard this card.

I feel like I want whatever fix for the ship to make the ship be very personal. Maybe something along the lines like "You gain an Illicit upgrade option. If you equip an Illicit upgrade, your squad point cost is reduced by 4. Your Illicit upgrades gain unique." Yes, the additional line about the minimum points you can reduce the upgrade by isn't there.

You could give the "effect" of a Sensor Jammer or Sensor Cluster without actually making the ship use that slot and build in the cost of it. Sensor Jammer is useful, but probably not worth 4pts in most ships.

That would still leave the slot open for FCS with Virago