So I have been playing a lot of epic lately. Really really enjoying my table time with a bunch of ties and a gozanti or Raider. Typically the games where I bring the raider have been more successful than my games with the gozanti, and I think it may just be that I have gotten used to the raider (my first epic ship) being the boss of the list. It has caused me to build a heavy gozanti and play it entirely too aggresively, where the raider would be able to succeed. I was wondering if there is a general consensus about roughly how many points should go into your support epic. Be it a Gozanti, Rebel Transport, or even the upcoming C-ROC. Also, are there any example builds and/or articles about how to commit your support ships on the table? Thanks in advance.

I tend to run my Gozanti like an aircraft carrier. . .it isn't meant to do much than get my TIE Bombers or TIE/sf in place (my 2 fav ships to load). Both get excellent alpha-strike opportunities when launched from the Gozanti. I do give it a hardpoint weapon so it isn't a sitting duck, but it is more about crew and teams to act as fighter/bomber support.

One fun thing about epic is that each epic ship flies completely differently.

The raider has the kill spot and generally wants things mostly in front of it.

Thw corvette has the large side arcs and sits on the edge.

The transport is my favorite. Keep it cheap, and make it a ramming meat shield that Buffs things around it while it's alive.

The gozanti cant be aggressive. It can put your ships in a Great spot but after that it needs to pick and choose it's battles more than the other epics.

Itll be interesting to see what the scum ships do and if they bring large scale scumminess and tricks into epic.

In addition to the above advice, I try to keep a Gozanti to 60pts or less.

Base ship is 40. Automated Protocols is 5 and so is the turret. A title is nice and a crew, but not essential. I like the WED-15 repair droid because crits can be crippling, and then it makes a fine blocker for an enemy Raider or CR90 because you can fix the damage.

I have some experience flying Epic Ships. A Gozanti needs very, very little add ons to work. Probably if I play someday competitive Epic I would simply choose the Turret, APs and the Title that allows you to deploy all your 4 ties at once. And if you have some points left perhaps a crewmember...a cheap one.

Simply run flank speed to the zone you want to "control" and after launching your Ties simply ram wildly and fire. You will die by mid game. Simply Cry Havock.

Well further more we can assume it is only one Gozanti/transport/C-roc. Because in Dogfight you can have up to 5 Epic points and the flotilla ships only take up 2. Heck you could even go Raider with Gozanti (although you would be left with only a few Academy Pilots for your fighter screen).

For a huge support ship we could easily call it off at 60-100 points. That still leaves 200+ points for fighters. For the larger gunships 100 points would be the base cost so you might want to cap it off at 150-175 points.

So good to see strategic discussion on Epic! I think a lot could depend on the rest of your list and how you want to fly the Gozanti. If you are using it as a transport to get things closer, you don't want to much many points into it at all. You try to use the Gozanti to soak up the damage and get your payload of fighters past the enemy screen. KISS philosophy (not calling you stupid).

There are other ways to build out the Gozanti, though. One idea that I've used to some good effect, especially on a mission, is to have the Gozanti with a Single Turbo Laser and snipe at range. Put on the title that debuffs people that you TL. Tarkin is also good at spoiling someone's action. It's more points, but it can hover well with a fighter screen to control a bit of the board.

Gozanti-class Cruiser (40)
Grand Moff Tarkin (6)
Single Turbolasers (8)
Sensor Team (4)
Optimized Generators (5)
Suppressor (6)

Total: 69

You can go with an Ordnance Carrier. These get kind of tricky. You can always go cheap, or you can load on just a little more. For example, here is an expensive version:

Gozanti-class Cruiser (40)
Weapons Engineer (3)
Ion Torpedoes (5)
Ordnance Experts (5)
Ordnance Tubes (5)
Suppressor (6)

Total: 64

The Suppressor title makes the Ion Torpedo shot better as it means you are debuffing the defender. The Ordnance Team helps you adjust the die roll to help in case you whiff. Weapons Engineer helps you grab 2 Target Locks because you might need to spend the 2nd round doing something other than grabbing a TL. Maybe doing a Reinforce or a Shield Replenish.

You can go super cheap, like this:

Gozanti-class Cruiser (40)
Homing Missiles (5)
Ordnance Tubes (5)

Total: 50

Don't need the title, crew, or teams. Just try blasting at one thing at a time. Cheap and reliable.

I guess it matters what you want it to do. If you want a cheap one that acts as the bait do draw in the enemy, then you can gear up a lot of your list to blast the heck out of the enemy.

EDIT: Oh, if you want thoughts on the C-ROC, our latest episode (out today) has each of us building a list. Well, I built 3 for each modification.

Click here, but C-ROC builds @ 1:08:05

My general guideline is to spend 25-33% of the cost of the huge ship on upgrades. My Raider, for example, usually sits between 125-133 points. More than that, and you're making your huge ship into a big target that isn't able to take the punishment it will receive, nor dish out enough damage in time to make its points worth it. For the smaller Huge ships (Rebel Transport and Imperial Assault Carrier) you can even go a little higher, maybe even 50-60%. I've equipped upgrades worth a total of 70% the cost the ship, but you may start to see diminishing returns with so many points in upgrades. You have to make sure every upgrade you use is important.

For example, the only time I've played with the Gozanti and had a lot of success, I kitted it out to 69 points...without a weapon. I don't suggest it, but it can work wonders because a) my little starfighter strike force is pretty threatening (TIE advanced with Opportunist), and b) the Gozanti is carrying 4 Alpha Sq. Pilots. Here's the Gozanti Build.

Gozanti-class Cruiser (40)
Automated Protocols (5)
Grand Moff Tarkin (6)
Targeting Coordinator (4)
Suppressor (6)
Engineering Team (4)
Docking Clamps (0)
Comms Booster (4)

TOTAL: 69

I use every upgrade just about every round. First, I use Targeting Coordinator to snag a target lock on an enemy ship, then pass that lock to a TIE advanced (with Advanced Targeting Computer - delicious!). Acquiring that TL triggers the Suppressor title, so I can remove a focus, evade or target lock token from the target enemy ship. Next, Comms Booster to take stress off one of my ships, and assign a focus token to it. Then Coordinate so another friendly can barrel roll, TL, evade, or whatever it needs to do. Then I use Automated Protocols to reinforce one of the sections of my ship. In the combat phase, Grand Moff Tarkin either assigns a focus token to a friendly, or removes a focus token from an enemy. And having spent 3 energy during the round, Engineering Team is there to help me quickly get enough energy back to do it all over again in a pinch. Though honestly, I can probably do without a team upgrade, and save 4 points; everything else is used literally every single round to great effect.

I really like Automated Protocols on the Gozanti, but that is a wasted upgrade if your opponent is not shooting it. The tough part is that when you equip Ordnance Tubes or Optimized Generators to power your weapons, you make your cruiser a target, and now you're left without a free Reinforce or Recover. I really like Suppressor and Grand Moff Tarkin on this ship because you make it a target because of its serious control power, and Automated Protocols helps it maintain defenses.

I have a gozanti, though it has yet to see any table time, so take all of this with a grain of salt.

The biggest mistake I see in epic is trying to take a big ship and make it wear too many hats. In the early days, people would load up a CR-90 with everything, big guns and lots of crew to do support duty. It was too bloated to pull it's weight, and did not have the energy to use everything. It's easy to do that with the transport too. I have had more success with keeping the points down on the big ships and shifting more points to my squadrons. The newer upgrades have done a lot to help epic ships pull their weight, but It's still easy to sink too many points in them, and eve in epic, most of the time, it's your squadrons that do most of the work.

You can make the CR-90 a good gun platform, but when you try to make it that and a support vessel, it eats up too many points and doesn't have enough energy or actions to do it all. how all of this applies to the gozanti I cannot say, as I haven't actually put it on the table, but with a single hardpoint It's not a gunship, no matter what you do.

22 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

I really like Suppressor and Grand Moff Tarkin on this ship because you make it a target because of its serious control power, and Automated Protocols helps it maintain defenses.

Yes! It is a really good combo. I have also seen it used to good effect. That's why I've seen Sensor Team expand the range of the TL for effect and to also use a Single Turbo Laser for hitting from afar. It's great to keep at a distance and try to hit things. It's not a lot of points if they divert something to take care of it. If they do, you can swarm it with many smaller ships (while the Suppressor removes tokens!).

2 hours ago, heychadwick said:

So good to see strategic discussion on Epic! I think a lot could depend on the rest of your list and how you want to fly the Gozanti.

You can go super cheap, like this:

Gozanti-class Cruiser (40)
Homing Missiles (5)
Ordnance Tubes (5)

Total: 50

Don't need the title, crew, or teams. Just try blasting at one thing at a time. Cheap and reliable.

Yes! Love to hear more discussion on Epic. I have been wanting to try something simple like this build you posted or just Optimized Generators and Single Turbolasers (and probably Sensor Team). It takes a long time to burn this thing down, and it's putting in work that whole time, for relatively little cost. The Single Turbolaser version especially has that feeling of a blockade ship trying to shoot down as many targets as possible before they break the line. Wow. I almost want to pick up a second Gozanti now for some blockade scenarios (Yeah, I just watched the B-wing episode of Star Wars: Rebels Season 2 this weekend).

16 hours ago, BleakSquadron said:

Also, are there any example builds and/or articles about how to commit your support ships on the table? Thanks in advance.

As far as deployment for support ships, my gut tells me to put it right in the thick of it with your forces. Or, I guess to be more precise since huge ships set up first, place it in the middle (or just off center) and then deploy all your ships along one side of it. If your opponent comes at you in a single group, your support ship is close enough to actually support your fighters. Range 2 is generally a good place to fly the ships that need the support, whether from Coordinate, Fleet Officer, etc. If your opponent tries a two-pronged approach, you have a big shield on one side to protect your fighters while they tangle with the half of the enemy strike force that is closest to them. It's even better if your opponent tries to get around the back of your cruiser because it will take too long while half of their force is struggling against your entire squad.

Generally, the support ship is not a big target, don't hold it back. It needs to make contact with the enemy in the same round as your fighter groups so they can be appropriately buffed, or so the cruiser can launch its own fighters and weapons into battle. If you've constructed your squad the right way, you should be fine with your opponent's targeting priority one way or the other, whether they attack your fighters or your huge ship first. If you have a squad in mind, and you say, "I sure hope they don't attack my fighters first, because my huge ship is useless," or vice-versa, then as Poe says, "you might want to rethink your technique."

2 hours ago, Parakitor said:

Yes! Love to hear more discussion on Epic. I have been wanting to try something simple like this build you posted or just Optimized Generators and Single Turbolasers (and probably Sensor Team). It takes a long time to burn this thing down, and it's putting in work that whole time, for relatively little cost. The Single Turbolaser version especially has that feeling of a blockade ship trying to shoot down as many targets as possible before they break the line. Wow. I almost want to pick up a second Gozanti now for some blockade scenarios (Yeah, I just watched the B-wing episode of Star Wars: Rebels Season 2 this weekend).

As far as deployment for support ships, my gut tells me to put it right in the thick of it with your forces. Or, I guess to be more precise since huge ships set up first, place it in the middle (or just off center) and then deploy all your ships along one side of it. If your opponent comes at you in a single group, your support ship is close enough to actually support your fighters. Range 2 is generally a good place to fly the ships that need the support, whether from Coordinate, Fleet Officer, etc. If your opponent tries a two-pronged approach, you have a big shield on one side to protect your fighters while they tangle with the half of the enemy strike force that is closest to them. It's even better if your opponent tries to get around the back of your cruiser because it will take too long while half of their force is struggling against your entire squad.

Generally, the support ship is not a big target, don't hold it back. It needs to make contact with the enemy in the same round as your fighter groups so they can be appropriately buffed, or so the cruiser can launch its own fighters and weapons into battle. If you've constructed your squad the right way, you should be fine with your opponent's targeting priority one way or the other, whether they attack your fighters or your huge ship first. If you have a squad in mind, and you say, "I sure hope they don't attack my fighters first, because my huge ship is useless," or vice-versa, then as Poe says, "you might want to rethink your technique."

Wait epic ships are placed first? I was under the impression they are placed last. Or do they just activate last?

Just now, TBot said:

Wait epic ships are placed first? I was under the impression they are placed last. Or do they just activate last?

Or are they placed according to pilot skill along with all the other normal sized ships?

Right, I should have clarified. For tournament rules, both players set up their huge ships in order of ascending pilot skill. Once huge ships are on the mat, then small/large ships are placed in order of ascending pilot skill as normal.

However, for non-tournament matches, there is no such rule: huge ships follow all the standard rules for deployment. So your Gozanti would set up at PS 2 after all small/large/huge PS 1 ships have deployed. I like the tournament rules because it creates a common format that everybody can recognize, but its nice to not have so many rules sometimes and just play the game simply. Obstacle rules are an example that have special changes for tournament play, which I don't prefer.

Gozanti with automated protocols, suppressor title and double blaster turret. Take a target lock action each turn to strip a focus, evade or blue target lock token from an enemy ship and then get a free reinforce or recover action from automated protocols. Combine with a sensor team to allow you to do this out to range 5.

I usually just pair it with a couple of TIE fighters that I do not deploy until my enemies are in point blank range and I can drop them into arc dodging positions after every small ship has moved.

47 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

Right, I should have clarified. For tournament rules, both players set up their huge ships in order of ascending pilot skill. Once huge ships are on the mat, then small/large ships are placed in order of ascending pilot skill as normal.

However, for non-tournament matches, there is no such rule: huge ships follow all the standard rules for deployment. So your Gozanti would set up at PS 2 after all small/large/huge PS 1 ships have deployed. I like the tournament rules because it creates a common format that everybody can recognize, but its nice to not have so many rules sometimes and just play the game simply. Obstacle rules are an example that have special changes for tournament play, which I don't prefer.

Thanks for clarification

I've run the 64 point ordinance Gozanti build that Parkitor suggested above for a couple of missions and it was a hell of a lot of fun, but I'm not sure it would hold its own well in a dirrect slugging match points battle.

Personally I go cheap as possible and focus on their cargo, be it bombers or kitted out royal guard interceptors to clean up late battle.

Gozanti Class Cruiser 40 (73)

-Automated Protocols

-Suppressor

-Grand Moff Tarkin

-Targeting Coordinator

-Comms Booster

-EM Emmiter

-Dual Laser Turret

This is something I've been considering for the next time I bring it out. 73 points may be a little steep however every upgrade purchased will make itself useful. I may be willing to go without the EM Emmiter if re moving it would add to whatever else I bring. The dual laser turret is only really so that it has some form of attack, I won't count on it to punch through often but I can't bring myself to fly a 68 point ship with no offensive potential (that is the cost arte dropping the turret ofc). Every single other upgrade is helping with action efficiency. Should be able to put out 5 actions a round (divided amongst itself and friendly ships), and that seems pretty ridiculously useful. I'm still unsure though, any experience using some of these upgrades out there?

On ‎2‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 9:47 PM, Darth Meanie said:

I tend to run my Gozanti like an aircraft carrier. . .it isn't meant to do much than get my TIE Bombers or TIE/sf in place (my 2 fav ships to load). Both get excellent alpha-strike opportunities when launched from the Gozanti. I do give it a hardpoint weapon so it isn't a sitting duck, but it is more about crew and teams to act as fighter/bomber support.

You cant run any tie/sf on the gozanti. It's only allowed 4 specific tie variants: fighter, interceptor, bomber, and advanced. personally I think that's kinda silly thematically, but its a balance issue. with house rules you can change that obviously, but its technically cheating

32 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

You cant run any tie/sf on the gozanti. It's only allowed 4 specific tie variants: fighter, interceptor, bomber, and advanced. personally I think that's kinda silly thematically, but its a balance issue. with house rules you can change that obviously, but its technically cheating

Fudge. I knew TAP wasn't allowed but TIE/fo was. *sigh* I think FFG needs to keep a very specific running list somewhere (like the FAQ) of allowed ships.

On ‎2‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 3:35 PM, Parakitor said:

Right, I should have clarified. For tournament rules, both players set up their huge ships in order of ascending pilot skill. Once huge ships are on the mat, then small/large ships are placed in order of ascending pilot skill as normal.

However, for non-tournament matches, there is no such rule: huge ships follow all the standard rules for deployment. So your Gozanti would set up at PS 2 after all small/large/huge PS 1 ships have deployed. I like the tournament rules because it creates a common format that everybody can recognize, but its nice to not have so many rules sometimes and just play the game simply. Obstacle rules are an example that have special changes for tournament play, which I don't prefer.

A different mistake I have been making is that Epic ships activate last, but then attack during normal PS countdown sequence.

2 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

You cant run any tie/sf on the gozanti. It's only allowed 4 specific tie variants: fighter, interceptor, bomber, and advanced. personally I think that's kinda silly thematically, but its a balance issue. with house rules you can change that obviously, but its technically cheating

A TIE Fighter , a TIE /FO Fighter and a TIE /SF Fighter all count as TIE fighter . Darth Meanie is not cheating. Same thing applies to "Youngster". The ship type must contain the entire ship type requirement, but it may have extra words or types. Otherwise, the TIE Mark II and the Lightened Frame upgrade cards could not be equipped to any ship.

In fact, if the TIE Adv. Prototype didn't use that abbreviation, it would be allowed as TIE Advanced . Sadly, it's not.

I know I'm getting into some potentially dangerous territory, but I honestly believe that when Docking Clamps was written, the intent was to allow TAPs, but with the title fiasco, the devs needed to make a decision about how to keep the TIE/x1 off The Inquisitor, and came up with the abbreviation rule. In fact, I have half a mind to ask them right now if they can include an errata for Docking Clamps allowing TIE advanced prototypes in the next FAQ.

They should allow all TIEs. There is no reason in-universe that they wouldn't let a particular TIE dock other that not physically fitting. And I struggle to find a reason in-game for it. Why a TIE Advanced is allowed to dock, but a TIE Adv. Prototype or a TIE Defender or a TIE Phantom aren't?

If there is a ship that would benefit in Epic from docking with the Gozanti, it would be the TIE Punisher. But you can't!

They should errata the card and allow all kind of small ships to dock there. If the models don't physically fit, then you place their pilot cards upside down instead, to represent that they are actually hanging there.