So as a few of you know by now, if you've seen me around, I run a mean Avenger PT using sw7 and turbolaser reroutes with screed.

This got me thinking about sw7s and Sato.

Obviously Sato's main strength is to turn long range dice into close range dice and deal a potentially devastating blow from afar, but with large ships the lack of rerollls at long range can cripple his effectiveness.

However, if you take the MC80 into consideration at medium range, the command cruiser's bread and butter, and add a con fire, the title defiance and sato, you're looking at a minimum of 7 confirmed hits plus whatever your remaining red deals.

The weakness here is obviously the MC80's limited ability to attack and the the ability of enemies to brace away or redirect medium damage hits like that. However, I think with a little help the consistency of this MC80 build could overpower most enemy ships.

With the MC80 run a simple neb-b support refit with tallon and yavaris, a couple of GRs with BC and JF, and a nice little bomber/intercept wing of VCX-100, NYM, 4 xwings and a HWK

Choosing the objectives, advanced gunnery (AG), contested outpost (CO), and minefields(M), forces the opponent between choosing to make the mc80 a Star Destroyer with better aim with AG, having to come close (blue range) to play the objective with CO, or having a bad deploy and risk early damage with M (not to mention mine-throwing).

Nym gets activated through the vcx-100's relay using yavaris, delivers two hits, hopefully with BC rerolls to remove the braces and redirects asap, the xwings run defense for nym wand the hwk lets him move if necessary, if the xwings are freed up by chance, extra bombers. Then, after the enemy's ship has activated and nym has had his way, let defiance hit him for a solid 7, if AG twice even. lol


It's a fun little fleet in my mind, obviously not going to do hot against a full 134 of fighters, but should be effective, I think.

Thoughts?


http://armadawarlords.hivelabs.solutions/view_list.php?token=78842&key=88984dd88e7ef0d10d16d5656baafff9

It is an interesting idea, however I think that delivering 1 red 2 blue and 4 black dice with a free reroll (1 red 3 blue 4 black + LS) will produce a higher damage output overall and a higher chance of a spike that will one-shot ships (esp. with XI7). Also worth keeping in m,ind is that Defiance and CF dice are added one by one so can be added as blue if needed to get the accuracy that wasn't present on initial roll.

11 minutes ago, pt106 said:

It is an interesting idea, however I think that delivering 1 red 2 blue and 4 black dice with a free reroll (1 red 3 blue 4 black + LS) will produce a higher damage output overall and a higher chance of a spike that will one-shot ships (esp. with XI7). Also worth keeping in m,ind is that Defiance and CF dice are added one by one so can be added as blue if needed to get the accuracy that wasn't present on initial roll.

The 4 black with LS was an immediate contender for a sato fleet, it's where everyone's mind goes when they think of sato. There was more than a few designed around this idea, especially since confire and defiance allow you to throw them at long range too with sato's ability.

But that's not really what I wanted to do with this fleet...

It's my belief that consistency and reliability are more fun to play than gambles. I've seen too many "sure things" go up in flames because dice are fickle. I typically design my fleets around attacks that are sure-fire. My Avenger PT fleet is designed throw a minimum of 7 damage from avenger and peaks at 14, knowing that I can always hit at least 7 with that ship I can better decide how to plot my course and where to make first contact. This is obviously personal preference, most players go of the highest damage output, but I love a sure thing. lol

If you want reliability.

Cr90b with ET and RBD.

31 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

If you want reliability.

Cr90b with ET and RBD.

Are we saying, use the CR90 as a ram?

That's exactly what he is sayi*CRASH* ARGHTHEHUMANITY *BANG*FIRE*DEATH*

16 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

If you want reliability.

Cr90b with ET and RBD.

You forgot the SW-7.

I suppose your little friends are going last when ramming, so they can activate RBD next turn. So they don't pop before they release their godly accurate shots. Unless rieekan

16 hours ago, Darth Sanguis said:

Are we saying, use the CR90 as a ram?

Cruise missile. with consecutive warheads. Cause a ram is too slow, not fitting for a 90

Back to OP, LS seems to be best option for MC80H - Command, and anyway those that want to engage an MC80H will want to close to deal big damage that the MC80H can't tank/heal off. However MC80L and (surprise)AF allow rerolling of black dice at long range by ordnance experts, so you might actually want to look at them if you want to fire rerolling long range black dice.

EDIT: I read your OP wrongly. Yes you are right, defiance with that combo can deal max 7 confirmed damage at medium-range to an activated ship via the side arc. Actually sounds viable. max damage with LS and CF dial is 12 but requires all five red/black dice to get two hits. The only thing is that LS works without sato so your commander is not locked in. No one would take your AG objective anymore with the SW build though, as you can lock 14 damage on one ship in two salvos, thereby burning defense tokens.

Trade-off with a SW80 vs SW90 swarm would be durability vs speed. You would still need to be careful when you close with enemy ships though, as any MC80 is a juicy number of points to your opponent, and now s/he can count the damage their ships would take from you.

Everyone seemed stuck on the idea of using black dice and running leading shots as a method of rerolls, which I get 'cause 'muh high damage potential, but like I said, I want something where I know my damage output is stable.

So I ran a test last night.

This fleet which I named pew pew pew (attached) worked perfectly.

I designed the MC80 to do the sw7-defiance-sato combo to throw 6-7 blue and a red out the sides 4-5 blue out the front. Added a plethora of bombers and GRs with JF to keep them safe as well as a well-protected GR with BC to get the bomber rerolls.

His fleet was a konstantine/interdictor fleet running an ISD II with Avenger, needa, ECMs, gunnery teams, sw-7s, and turbo laser reroutes, his 'dictor was a pulse tapper, running G-8s, OP, and engineering teams and he ran a instigator/flechette rounds raider for fighter screen.

The objective I chose was superior positions, I figured with my cluster of fighters even if he pulse tapped my MC80 I'd be able to make up points off victory tokens.

He screwed with my speed a bit starting out but my starting command was nav so I was able to maintain formation.

I got some licks in on the interdictor with the bombers before the raider started tying them up.

I used the bombers to target the raider for the rest of the 2nd round, bringing it's shields down then lit it up with 9 damage out the side of my mc80, it sank.

Round 3, the interdictor managed a successful pulse tap on my MC80, which I had presumed would spell the end for me. I lit of the interdictor with bombers using my GRs, targeting the rear (making 7 total victory tokens) and managed to bring it to one hull with my attack from the MC80. The ISD, running avanger threw it's attack at red range hitting my mc80 on a shieldless side for 6 damage with a crit. since I was pulsed I couldn't defend and took the hit. The avenger then moved into blue range. during the squad phase I tried to polish off the interdictor but he managed to keep it alive burning his last redirect.

Round 4 I prepared for the worse but had the advantage of 1st player, knowing the mc80 was doomed with only 2 hull left, I activated it. By luck I had chose squadron command for my MC80 and with Ray I knew I'd have a very slim chance to survive. I Used my first squadron to hit the interdicor, and with no shields and no redirects, it met it's end. The other 4 I moved to the side hull of the ISD which I had a beautiful double arc on on from my mc80. I managed to pop the shields and deal a few cards with my bombers then lined up my attacks. sato got me 7 out the side and 4 out the front, it wasn't enough to sink his ISD but it was hurt, the next attack, and the remaining bombers would have a chance to finish it. Again by luck, my mc80 was able to position itself in a manner that hid the wounded side of my ship and limited the ISD to a single attack to a fully shielded hull zone (basically nose to nose). The ISD attacked, 5 blue 4 red for a total of 12 damage, but since I had not been tapped I was able to half it and redirect it to avoid hull damage, the ISD collided and did not move.

My opponent called the match knowing that with 3 GRs in activation range of my bombers, and first activation next round, I had a certain victory.


That said, I am very happy with this combo, sw-7s, sato, defiance , and x-17s make a consistently mean ship.

pew pew pew.pdf

21 hours ago, Darth Sanguis said:

Everyone seemed stuck on the idea of using black dice and running leading shots as a method of rerolls, which I get 'cause 'muh high damage potential, but like I said, I want something where I know my damage output is stable.

So I ran a test last night.

This fleet which I named pew pew pew (attached) worked perfectly.

I designed the MC80 to do the sw7-defiance-sato combo to throw 6-7 blue and a red out the sides 4-5 blue out the front. Added a plethora of bombers and GRs with JF to keep them safe as well as a well-protected GR with BC to get the bomber rerolls.

His fleet was a konstantine/interdictor fleet running an ISD II with Avenger, needa, ECMs, gunnery teams, sw-7s, and turbo laser reroutes, his 'dictor was a pulse tapper, running G-8s, OP, and engineering teams and he ran a instigator/flechette rounds raider for fighter screen.

The objective I chose was superior positions, I figured with my cluster of fighters even if he pulse tapped my MC80 I'd be able to make up points off victory tokens.

He screwed with my speed a bit starting out but my starting command was nav so I was able to maintain formation.

I got some licks in on the interdictor with the bombers before the raider started tying them up.

I used the bombers to target the raider for the rest of the 2nd round, bringing it's shields down then lit it up with 9 damage out the side of my mc80, it sank.

Round 3, the interdictor managed a successful pulse tap on my MC80, which I had presumed would spell the end for me. I lit of the interdictor with bombers using my GRs, targeting the rear (making 7 total victory tokens) and managed to bring it to one hull with my attack from the MC80. The ISD, running avanger threw it's attack at red range hitting my mc80 on a shieldless side for 6 damage with a crit. since I was pulsed I couldn't defend and took the hit. The avenger then moved into blue range. during the squad phase I tried to polish off the interdictor but he managed to keep it alive burning his last redirect.

Round 4 I prepared for the worse but had the advantage of 1st player, knowing the mc80 was doomed with only 2 hull left, I activated it. By luck I had chose squadron command for my MC80 and with Ray I knew I'd have a very slim chance to survive. I Used my first squadron to hit the interdicor, and with no shields and no redirects, it met it's end. The other 4 I moved to the side hull of the ISD which I had a beautiful double arc on on from my mc80. I managed to pop the shields and deal a few cards with my bombers then lined up my attacks. sato got me 7 out the side and 4 out the front, it wasn't enough to sink his ISD but it was hurt, the next attack, and the remaining bombers would have a chance to finish it. Again by luck, my mc80 was able to position itself in a manner that hid the wounded side of my ship and limited the ISD to a single attack to a fully shielded hull zone (basically nose to nose). The ISD attacked, 5 blue 4 red for a total of 12 damage, but since I had not been tapped I was able to half it and redirect it to avoid hull damage, the ISD collided and did not move.

My opponent called the match knowing that with 3 GRs in activation range of my bombers, and first activation next round, I had a certain victory.


That said, I am very happy with this combo, sw-7s, sato, defiance , and x-17s make a consistently mean ship.

pew pew pew.pdf

What about his squadrons? I dont put my list into test with people wich does not carry any consistent squadron threat. If he have had just some ties + rudor (ie) your bombers wouldnt get away as easy as you tell us. Looks like a nice fleet, but with sato I preffer to fly fast squadrons wich for rebels means A's or YT2400. (now also lancer)

How often did you use blue accuracies? To block brace, evade, redirects etc

1 hour ago, xerpo said:

What about his squadrons? I dont put my list into test with people wich does not carry any consistent squadron threat. If he have had just some ties + rudor (ie) your bombers wouldnt get away as easy as you tell us. Looks like a nice fleet, but with sato I preffer to fly fast squadrons wich for rebels means A's or YT2400. (now also lancer)

He ran without them, relying solely on his raider to tie up fighters. It was the obvious weakpoint to his fleet, but I designed the fleet with escort, intel, snipe, and bomber, the two groups of squadrons, as I deployed them would have had the choice to engage and destroy with a rapid volley of snipe and x-wing fire, or push through using the hwk's intel.... Of course talk is just that, I plan on testing the fighter version against a fighter fleet soon. It's been my experience that with sato by round three, most ships are close enough to use his ability.

2 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

How often did you use blue accuracies? To block brace, evade, redirects etc

My opponent had ECMs on everything but the raider, I used my blue accuracies as damage. With XI7s, the redirect ability was basically useless. Just had to worry about the braces, but with such a heavy bomber screen, the damage was getting in one way or another.