If a character has an ability that is an action, it will read Action: see Leia for an example.

Jango is a triggered effect, not an action.

You are getting confused between actions and abilities, which granted, sometimes are the same thing, like Jango activating (hell it basically the same word as action) but it is an ability, or Squad Tactics which grants abilities which would otherwise be actions.

FFG needs a flow chart for this game already.

A flow chart would help for clarity, certainly, but this matter has been neatly resolved. Everything goes into the Q. Everything. Period. (except for before abilities)

So you're right, Jango's triggered effect goes to the end of the Q, and gets resolved after HB and Rey's triggers have resolved .

The immediately take the action means they cannot save actions for later, say in a different turn. It does not mean interrupt a current action to nest another action. It clearly states resolve the current action before the next. If the current action triggered an ability, that ability would need to resolve before the action fully resolves. The game would be very clunky otherwise. It does need clarification though.

1 minute ago, Mep said:

It does not mean interrupt a current action to nest another action. It clearly states resolve the current action before the next.

OK, I'm tired of trying to explain, so let's explore your thinking more.

Say my action is to play a card (conveniently the issue in question). The steps for taking the "Play a Card" action are on Page 13. Let's say it's an upgrade. I pay the cost. I follow all the steps under "Playing an Upgrade". I pull the die out and put it on the card. And...

What? I've followed all the instructions to "Play a card from hand". Is the action fully resolved?

5 minutes ago, Mep said:

If the current action triggered an ability, that ability would need to resolve before the action fully resolves.

You're creating a window within an action for triggered effects when the rules don't support that. The rules do give us a mechanism for managing triggered abilities, which happen separately from the current action being taken. Half of what you're saying even supports this; the other half is just flat out made up. So, how is what we wrote above 'clunky'?

I understand how you guys are reading the rules and it is possible you may be correct. I will only say this. Actions are not listed in the things that go into the Queue, only events and abilities. Actions are taken sequentially and only after one is fully resolved which should include triggered abilities from that action. To say actions are in the queue is also made up. The rules clearly do not list Actions as among the things which are queueable. We should agree the rules are incomplete and this needs clarification because that third action, which is not in the queue, may allow the Rey player to respond to Jango's dice.

Neither Holdout Blaster nor Rey's abilities are actions, and we're not suggesting that actions go inside the Q. They are abilities, effects, triggers, whatever you want to call them. Those abilities will only create additional actions when they resolve.

3 minutes ago, Mep said:

which should include triggered abilities from that action.

There is nothing in the rules which supports this, though. Nothing even hints at it.

3 minutes ago, Mep said:

To say actions are in the queue is also made up. The rules clearly do not list Actions as among the things which are queueable.

I'm not saying that actions go into the queue, and never have. Abilities and effects go into the queue. You seem to take any ability which grants an action and treat it as nothing more than the action - but it's still an ability. Actions don't have triggers - abilities do. Abilities meet those trigger conditions, go in the queue, wait their turn to resolve, and then resolve their effects. One of those possible effects is to give you another action, which you then immediately take because it's been granted.

Wow the three of you make my head hurt but Buhallin makes a solid point and the gist of all this is Jango activates after Rey (ALL of Rey ambush included) and I agree with it. Any of you in grad school cause you have this thesis thing down?

Sort of. Or maybe we're just smart and incorrigible.

I think Mep has come around in his own particular way without actually admitting that he's wrong. Who am I to deprive him of a little saved face? Thanks for keeping it civil, gentlemen.

32 minutes ago, LordFajubi said:

Wow the three of you make my head hurt but Buhallin makes a solid point and the gist of all this is Jango activates after Rey (ALL of Rey ambush included) and I agree with it. Any of you in grad school cause you have this thesis thing down?

25 years of software engineering. Honestly, I think everyone playing Destiny could benefit from a Data Structures course

The queue is kinda clunky right now. This is the sequence of events:

-Holdout Blaster on Rey

--Ambush triggers and enters the Queue

--Rey's ability triggers and enters the Queue (simultaneous, order chosen by controlling player. Q: Ambush, Rey ability)

-Rey player resolves first ability in the Queue, Ambush, takes his action.

--Activates Rey

---Triggers Jango, Jango goes to the end of the queue (Q: Rey ability, Jango ability)

-Resolves second ability in the Queue, Rey's

--Resolves damage on Rey dice

---Damage goes to the end of the queue?!? (Q: Jango ability, damage)

-Jango activates

-Damage is applied

-Jango player's turn

If you don't believe me, the example in the RRG for the queue explains that you resolve dice and their effect does enter the queue.

It made sense with after abilities only, but messed up timing with events. The problem was events were not clearly defined in the rules. Rather than define events, they messed with the stack. Oh well.

Also, immediately in this game does not mean RIGHT NOW BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE. It means you cannot bank it for later in the round. It still follows all timing rules present in the game.

13 minutes ago, rowdyoctopus said:

Also, immediately in this game does not mean RIGHT NOW BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE. It means you cannot bank it for later in the round. It still follows all timing rules present in the game.

If this is true, it's terribly worded. The second part of the ambush text could say actions taken by a player when it's not their turn "immediately enter the queue," which would support the notion that Jango can wait and use his ability after Rey activates but not immediately after that happens.

53 minutes ago, KalEl814 said:

If this is true, it's terribly worded. The second part of the ambush text could say actions taken by a player when it's not their turn "immediately enter the queue," which would support the notion that Jango can wait and use his ability after Rey activates but not immediately after that happens.

Quote from page 12:

"When a player is allowed to take additional actions on their turn, they must immediately take them following the resolution of the current action or decline to act (this is not the same as passing your turn). They cannot save the actions for later. If they are allowed to take an action outside of their turn, they also must take it immediately or decline to act."

Emphasis is mine.

9 minutes ago, rowdyoctopus said:

Quote from page 12:

"When a player is allowed to take additional actions on their turn, they must immediately take them following the resolution of the current action or decline to act (this is not the same as passing your turn). They cannot save the actions for later. If they are allowed to take an action outside of their turn, they also must take it immediately or decline to act."

Emphasis is mine.

Right, and that doesn't conflict with the text in Ambush from my perspective. Allowing Jango to activate and then allowing Rey to complete her actions is in sync with actions happening immediately when they take place outside of your turn. My point is right there in what you posted too... if Jango doesn't take his action immediately, he declines to act. it's not put in the queue, it's a declined action.

3 minutes ago, KalEl814 said:

Right, and that doesn't conflict with the text in Ambush from my perspective. Allowing Jango to activate and then allowing Rey to complete her actions is in sync with actions happening immediately when they take place outside of your turn. My point is right there in what you posted too... if Jango doesn't take his action immediately, he declines to act. it's not put in the queue, it's a declined action.

That's not how it works. Jango isn't taking an action, he is triggering his ability. His ability enters the queue.

Immediately just means you cannot save it for later. It's right there in the quote above.

QUEUE
After abilities enter an imaginary line once they meet their
trigger conditions, known as the queue. They wait in the
queue until the trigger condition is complete. If the trigger
condition was part of another ability, that entire ability is
completed before the after ability resolves. Abilities in the
queue are resolved in the order they entered it. Each one
must fully resolve before the next one resolves. If, during the
resolution of an ability in the queue, another ability is added,
it moves to “the end” of the queue and is resolved last.
• Abilities enter and leave the queue in chronological order,
based on a “first in, first out” principle.
• If two or more abilities have the same trigger condition, the
player who controls the battlefield decides the order they
enter the queue.

I did not recall reading this section previously, but it does seem to be very explicit as to what happens. I don't even see why the discussion is continuing, the bolded parts make very clear the order of events.

Ambush & Jango are clearly "after abilities," correct?

23 minutes ago, ArbitraryNerd said:

QUEUE
After abilities enter an imaginary line once they meet their
trigger conditions, known as the queue. They wait in the
queue until the trigger condition is complete. If the trigger
condition was part of another ability, that entire ability is
completed before the after ability resolves. Abilities in the
queue are resolved in the order they entered it. Each one
must fully resolve before the next one resolves. If, during the
resolution of an ability in the queue, another ability is added,
it moves to “the end” of the queue and is resolved last.
• Abilities enter and leave the queue in chronological order,
based on a “first in, first out” principle.
• If two or more abilities have the same trigger condition, the
player who controls the battlefield decides the order they
enter the queue.

I did not recall reading this section previously, but it does seem to be very explicit as to what happens. I don't even see why the discussion is continuing, the bolded parts make very clear the order of events.

Ambush & Jango are clearly "after abilities," correct?

Yes, they are. So is Rey's ability. That's the old RRG, though. Now everything g enters the queue. They updated on January 24th.

Just now, rowdyoctopus said:

Yes, they are. So is Rey's ability.

Well then, I guess the Queue takes care of them as stated via the rules. Jango comes last, but on the opponents turn.

In other news, is anyone else feeling that "Before" is a clunky way to handle interrupts? I feel like that's going to create more and more problems down the line.

19 minutes ago, rowdyoctopus said:

Yes, they are. So is Rey's ability. That's the old RRG, though. Now everything g enters the queue. They updated on January 24th.

The Ambish section wasn't updated and still says actions taken by players when it's not their turn are taken immediately. It doesn't say that they're placed into the queue immediately.

I still think this needs clarification. Hopefully the query I put in gets a response. I don't care if I'm right, I just want to play right.

10 minutes ago, KalEl814 said:

The Ambish section wasn't updated and still says actions taken by players when it's not their turn are taken immediately. It doesn't say that they're placed into the queue immediately.

I still think this needs clarification. Hopefully the query I put in gets a response. I don't care if I'm right, I just want to play right.

Well ambush is an after ability. So we could say that ambush enters the queue, and when it resolves you immediately take the action.

From Lukas Litzsinger via FB

"This is a great question and hopefully I can resolve the current ambiguity. The intent is that the effects which create the actions do enter the queue, but the actions exist outside of the queue once created, waiting for the current action to resolve. Rules Reference p. 13: "When a player is allowed to take additional actions on their
turn, they must immediately take them following the resolution
of the current action..."

So you play the Holdout Blaster on Rey, and then you trigger and resolve the Ambush ability and Rey's ability to gain two additional actions. This completes the current action, so you may resolve the first extra action to activate Rey. As part of this action, Jango's ability meets its trigger condition and is added to the queue. Since the other extra action exists outside the queue, waiting for the current action to complete, Jango's ability resolves and he rolls in his dice. Then the Rey player can spend the second additional action.

I will make sure that this is clear in the next update of the Rules Reference. May the Force be with you."

So no Jango doesn't wait for all stacked up actions to resolve. The generation of the actions is the ability, not the actions themselves.

Sidenote, these forums are not the best place to ask rules questions as they are just not heavily trafficked for this game. I'd opt for FB groups as you have a chance for designer input as well.

4 minutes ago, ScottieATF said:

From Lukas Lutz singer via FB

"This is a great question and hopefully I can resolve the current ambiguity. The intent is that the effects which create the actions do enter the queue, but the actions exist outside of the queue once created, waiting for the current action to resolve. Rules Reference p. 13: "When a player is allowed to take additional actions on their
turn, they must immediately take them following the resolution
of the current action..."

So you play the Holdout Blaster on Rey, and then you trigger and resolve the Ambush ability and Rey's ability to gain two additional actions. This completes the current action, so you may resolve the first extra action to activate Rey. As part of this action, Jango's ability meets its trigger condition and is added to the queue. Since the other extra action exists outside the queue, waiting for the current action to complete, Jango's ability resolves and he rolls in his dice. Then the Rey player can spend the second additional action.

I will make sure that this is clear in the next update of the Rules Reference. May the Force be with you."

So no Jango doesn't wait for all stacked up actions to resolve. The generation of the actions is the ability, not the actions themselves.

Sidenote, these forums are not the best place to ask rules questions as they are just not heavily trafficked for this game. I'd opt for FB groups as you have a chance for designer input as well.

Just got the same thing via email.

That is good clarification and I think everyone will be happy now knowing the correct way to play. I believe what happened here is we were not quite sure in what timing each thing in the queue resolves. One group of us was thinking that the first thing in queue resolves giving an extra action that you then take while the other ability is still sitting in queue waiting to resolve and give you the second extra action. While, others were saying that both things in the queue resolves granting 2 additional actions and then you take them both. Which would make the queue empty when Jango triggers.

I personally can see both sides of it and dont really care which way it actually works. I just hope everyone can read this and understand what both sides of this argument were saying.