I was the judge at a 37 player event at Highlander Games in Boonton, NJ this weekend. During the 5th round of Swiss I was called over to one of the top tables. Player A was running Jango / Veers and Player B was running Han / Rey. Player B plays Holdout Blaster on Rey, creating two additional actions (Ambush and Rey's character ability). Player B then uses one of his actions to activate Rey, which allows Player A to activate his Jango in response.

Now, here is the question. Does Player A activate Jango and role his dice into the pool at that moment, or does he declare he will activate Jango, and wait until Player B resolves the rest of their remaining actions?

I'm asking this because there are tqo conflictions in the rules reference guide when it comes to the queue and with "after" triggers. Jango's ability "triggers" after Rey is activated, but does his ability resolve after all other actions are made due to the "last one in, first one out" queue rulings?

Keep in mind, with the way Han / Rey plays, there could be more than just two additional actions on a turn. Luckily I was asked about the simplest scenario.

as far as i am aware the jango will activate and roll immediately after rey activates and then the rey player gets one more action, as each action needs to be dealt with as separate actions not all as one

3 minutes ago, executor said:

as far as i am aware the jango will activate and roll immediately after rey activates and then the rey player gets one more action, as each action needs to be dealt with as separate actions not all as one

That was how I ruled it at the event. I'm just looking for some clarification.

Would this not be an initiative thing? Ambush and Jango have the same trigger, so I assume the player with initiative would trigger first (and I feel like there is some precedence for this, with other rulings).

2 minutes ago, ArbitraryNerd said:

Would this not be an initiative thing? Ambush and Jango have the same trigger, so I assume the player with initiative would trigger first (and I feel like there is some precedence for this, with other rulings).

That's another thing that came into play as well. It's just that this is a major scenario that's going to come up at a lot of events, seeing as these two decks are tier one decks. Hoping for someone from FFG to reply to this. It's like a toss around of different rulings at this point haha.

5 minutes ago, ArbitraryNerd said:

Would this not be an initiative thing? Ambush and Jango have the same trigger, so I assume the player with initiative would trigger first (and I feel like there is some precedence for this, with other rulings).

Ambush and Jango don't have the same trigger.

2 minutes ago, ScottieATF said:

Ambush and Jango don't have the same trigger.

I know they don't it's just that you can use Ambush to activate Rey, which would cause Jango to trigger.

11 minutes ago, ScottieATF said:

Ambush and Jango don't have the same trigger.

Sorry, I'm not sure what I was thinking when I wrote that. Reading the effects again, it seems pretty clear that Jango would interrupt the third action (Holdout -> Rey's ability to activate Rey -> Jango -> Holdout's Ambush keyword [Rey/Holdout being interchangeable in this string]).

But... Well, Jango doesn't have the word "immediately" anywhere, so I guess I'm not confident about how the action nesting would work.

EDIT: Especially since the third action's trigger came before Jango's trigger -- the lack of "immediately" anywhere makes me think that Jango might actually get added to the end of the string. Yeah, gl judging this game with its current rule book. This is an instance that judges may need to just clarify at the beginning of events. X-Wing used to have a couple of these, though they're mostly gone. Mostly...

12 minutes ago, ArbitraryNerd said:

EDIT: Especially since the third action's trigger came before Jango's trigger -- the lack of "immediately" anywhere makes me think that Jango might actually get added to the end of the string. Yeah, gl judging this game with its current rule book. This is an instance that judges may need to just clarify at the beginning of events. X-Wing used to have a couple of these, though they're mostly gone. Mostly...

This is how I think it goes, both the Ambush trigger and Rey's ability trigger get added to the queue, if you resolve the first of those to activate Rey, the other is still in the queue when Jango triggers and he would get added to the queue behind the remaining trigger.

15 minutes ago, netherspirit1982 said:

This is how I think it goes, both the Ambush trigger and Rey's ability trigger get added to the queue, if you resolve the first of those to activate Rey, the other is still in the queue when Jango triggers and he would get added to the queue behind the remaining trigger.

I think I'm falling in this camp, only because there is no immediacy on any of the triggers, meaning they should just get added to the "stack" in order.

... But FFG has been known to abuse "stack" considerations in the past, usually to make their intended triggers work.

15 minutes ago, netherspirit1982 said:

This is how I think it goes, both the Ambush trigger and Rey's ability trigger get added to the queue, if you resolve the first of those to activate Rey, the other is still in the queue when Jango triggers and he would get added to the queue behind the remaining trigger.

I think I'm falling in this camp, only because there is no immediacy on any of the triggers, meaning they should just get added to the "stack" in order.

... But FFG has been known to abuse "stack" considerations in the past, usually to make their intended triggers work.

In a game the other day, my opponent played Hit and Run and activated Ackbar and immediately resolved his second action before I activated Jango in response. Is that wrong? He had control of the Battlefield, if that is relevant.

Ambush to activate a character doesn't stop Jango from activating. But he would still have to wait his turn to resolve or do anything more than role-in as far as I know.

I am agreeing with Jango adding to the stack and therefore gets his guranteed trigger but not till the series of events that caused his trigger are resolved. I am actually preferring it working this way because imagine Rey activating in the ambush example above and the Rey player has an event, there are atleast a couple, that removes a die from their opponent. If Jango popped before the ambush train ended they could use their remaining actions to remove Jango or a mod on him or both but the point being it completely neuters Jango's special if you can just activate a character using a hyper action string and remove him. I see the spirit of his special as multiple activation potential and Rey has no lore reason to deny him that, Obi-wan maybe but not Rey. I said it at launch and believe it with all my being that Rey is seriously broken she is just waiting for the right card combo to require an errata or ban.

The order of play would be Rey activates Jango Activates in response to ray activating then Rey's player gets a turn then Jango's player gets a turn.

Lore reason? Really? That's not relevant to the rules of the game.

2 hours ago, Engine25 said:

In a game the other day, my opponent played Hit and Run and activated Ackbar and immediately resolved his second action before I activated Jango in response. Is that wrong? He had control of the Battlefield, if that is relevant.

No, that is wrong. When an opponent's character activates, Jango has to decide then and there if he wants to activate and put his dice into the active pool. If he does, his dice are now susceptible to any effects the opponent could play. Hit and run + it's a trap could be deadly.

22 minutes ago, ScottieATF said:

Lore reason? Really? That's not relevant to the rules of the game.

That's your opinion, I have mine. If lore means nothing then slapping Star Wars on there is just a cash grab and this game is random people doing things. Lore may not matter to you but it does to me.

I think others have explained much better than I. Keep reading as it becomes very interesting on how Jango should be handled.

While we are discussing this...Are we in agreement that Jango gets to decide if he wants to activate after the character who triggered him puts their dice in the active pool specifically for scenarios like this where 1 or more actions can occur before Jango's owner has a chance to respond?

I would assume that Jango can activate as soon as Rey rolls her dice.

The text on Jango's card reads:

Quote

After an opponent activates a character, you may activate this character.

The RRG text for activating a character reads:

Quote

To activate a character or support card, a player exhausts that card and rolls all of its dice.

The RRG test for Ambush reads:

Quote

After playing (and resolving) a card with Ambush, a player may immediately take another action.

• If a player is allowed to take an action outside of their turn, they immediately take it.

So in the OP's scenario I'd say:

1. Holdout Blaster is played by the player running Rey
2. The player running Rey activates her and rolls her dice - dice rolling is part of the activation action, Jango doesn't interrupt to roll first
3. Jango activates and rolls his dice
4. Rey gets another action - either from Ambush or from her ability; I don't think there's a meaningful distincion here since the RRG states that the action outside of a player's turn is taken immediately, but I didn't see anything else more specific
5. Assuming there's no more Ambush jankery from the player running Rey, the player running Jango gets their turn after Rey's next action

14 minutes ago, nismojoe said:

While we are discussing this...Are we in agreement that Jango gets to decide if he wants to activate after the character who triggered him puts their dice in the active pool specifically for scenarios like this where 1 or more actions can occur before Jango's owner has a chance to respond?

I don't agree with that. Either Jango activates after his opponent activates , or his ability isn't used. The RRG text for Ambush makes this part pretty clear; it happens immediately. Nothing on Jango's card suggests that he can "bank" his action.

Rey's player plays Holdout Blaster on Rey and gains 2 actions. Rey activates and rolls into the dice pool. Jango's ability triggers and goes into the queue. The Jango player decides whether or not to activate Jango and roll his dice into the pool. Rey's player gets another action.

Rey has an ability that grants her extra actions. Actions aren't abilities and don't go into the queue to be resolved only abilities and effects do.

Thats my take and no I'm not sure, but that is how we have always played it locally. That is how it was played at a tournament I went to this weekend 175 miles from home. Yes it is definitely possible both locations are playing it wrong. I'm betting we're playing it correctly.

14 minutes ago, KalEl814 said:

I don't agree with that. Either Jango activates after his opponent activates, or his ability isn't used. The RRG text for Ambush makes this part pretty clear; it happens immediately.

I agree with you. Jango must choose to activate when his opponent's character activates. The dice hitting the table is part of the activation. Isn't that how Jabba works? He can essentially reroll one of his own dice when he activates? I don't see how ambush interacts with Jango.

I'm not sure whose duty it will be to speak up during a tournament. Like is the Rey or whoever player going to stop Everytime they pull it off and ask their opponent if they want to activate Jango or is it going to be up to the Jango player to ask their opponent to pause their action chain and let them decide if they want to activate? I mean if I was the action stacker, I would not be trying to help my opponent defeat myself.

Sorry everyone, I just got home from work. I'm glad this is becoming quite the topic of discussion.

7 minutes ago, Starbane said:

Rey's player plays Holdout Blaster on Rey and gains 2 actions. Rey activates and rolls into the dice pool. Jango's ability triggers and goes into the queue. The Jango player decides whether or not to activate Jango and roll his dice into the pool. Rey's player gets another action.

Rey has an ability that grants her extra actions. Actions aren't abilities and don't go into the queue to be resolved only abilities and effects do.

Thats my take and no in not sure, but that is how we have always played it locally. That is how it was played at a tournament I went to this weekend 175 miles from home. Yes it is definitely possible both locations are playing it wrong. I'm betting we're playing it correctly.

This is how it was played at the tournament I was judging. Maybe this person was there?