Just a note that the A-Wing model's bubble cockpit is wider than the U-Wing model's cockpit. Recall, that in RotJ it looks like the pilots in those A-Wing scenes are pretty snug in there (certainly less spacious cockpits than the X-Wing and Y-Wing cockpit interior shots). As per Rogue One, the U-Wing is a dual-seater, where two pilots sit side-by-side while flying the craft (e.g. Cassian and K2 sitting side-by-side in the cockpit).

But I'm told that scale is 100% correct and that the movies happen to be wrong about the A-Wing, because: multiple models used in filming, matte painting backdrops don't count, the people making RotJ and Episode 8 got A-Wings wrong, and/or Rebels made the R-22 Spearhead A-Wing precursor appear to be ever so slightly larger than it had been.

A-Wing: tiny, fast, maneuverable single-seat dogfither with frail hull, light shielding, and light weaponry; maximum capacity of 1
U-Wing: troop transport with heavy armor and heavy shielding and serious weaponry; maximum capacity of at least 6

Yet their overall fuselage volume is roughly about the same, as per the FFG minis. Makes sense!



Reminders:

LFL Filming Model:


LFL Cockpit Views:

LFL Matte Painting Backdrop:



Even FFG's own A-Wing Art suggests the pilot fills most of that bubble cockpit:







PSA: A-Wing models should be about half the size the are now

PSA #2: I know the LFL Numbers are what FFG used. I'm not saying FFG got it wrong, I'm saying LFL got it wrong.

You've put alot of thought into what is essentially old news. People noticed that the Awing was oversized when they first came out.

Think its been well documented at this point that LFL messed up. Seen this discussion before on here. Personally it doesn't bother me that the model is the wrong size, if it was smaller the $15 price point would bug me. Already feel the IG2000 and UWing should have been $20 and not $30

Now I have to compare my A-Wing and U-Wing models! I'm sure the comparison won't be favorable, and it'll further exacerbate the feeling that the U-Wing is too small for a large base and/or that the A-Wing is too big. I doubt I'd put them on the table together, so I won't be seeing the incongruence, but it'll still be there.

As someone who just completed a Green Squadron repaint, I'm not too upset that the A-wing is bigger than it "should" be. Would be a real bugger to paint.

38 minutes ago, eMeM said:

This is irrelevant.

(1) Regardless of how big A-Wings are in Rebels, it doesn't change the fact that the A-Wings of Episode 6 (and apparently Episode 8) are much, much smaller. We don't have A-Wing pilots from Rebels, we have A-Wing pilots from the Battle of Endor (Sojan, Crynyrd, Tycho, and Farrell were all Green Squadron at Endor). Besides, those aren't technically R-Z 1-A A-Wing Interceptors. It's been established (even in New Canon) that pre-Yavin A-Wing-like ships are R-22 Spearhead Fighters.

(2) Even if we grant the Rebels size, which is slightly larger, the FFG model would still be too big. You still couldn't squeeze two human beings shoulder-to-shoulder side by side in that bubble cockpit, yet in the U-Wing you can have Cassian and K2 sitting side-by-side with plenty of space between them (and yet the FFG Model A-Wing model still has a wider bubble cockpit than the U-Wing cockpit).

(3) Do you really want to use a kid's cartoon for scale arguments? Given that Rebels plays fast and loose with scale for stylistic advantage, such as with stubby little TIE Fighters, long-necked giraffe like ISDs, and anime-ish characters with giant eyes and tiny wrists/waists/etc., it doesn't seem like realistic scale is a goal for the cartoon (nor need it be).

So, overruled. Your Exhibit A is dismissed.

16 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

It's been established (even in New Canon) that pre-Yavin A-Wing-like ships are R-22 Spearhead Fighters.

That's the first time I hear that, can I get a source?

At least the scale isn't so abherrant it detracts from the game. Every time I see Star Trek Attack Wing, my dead inner Trekie rolls over in his grave.

3 minutes ago, jmswood said:

At least the scale isn't so abherrant it detracts from the game. Every time I see Star Trek Attack Wing, my dead inner Trekie rolls over in his grave.

You don't like seeing a U.S.S. Definance that is three times the size of the original series' U.S.S. Enterprise? Does it kill your immersion when you're recreating the nebula battle of Star Trek II and Khan's miranda-class ship dwarfs Kirk's Enterprise, despite that the Enterprise should be slightly larger?

I feel like Elsa would have something to say about all of this...

Edit: or maybe Adele Dazeem

ROTJ A-wings weren't too small, pilots were too big.

They asked for more spacious space fighters long before Endor, but Rebel command trolled them into piloting A-wings, just for the lulzs...

56 minutes ago, gamblertuba said:

I feel like Elsa would have something to say about all of this...

Edit: or maybe Adele Dazeem

Nah, this particular topic (A-Wing size) needs to be the next Gunboat-type thread.

FFG fix the A-Wing Scale! I'm starting a petition.

I agree completely. The A-wing is mis-labeled as 9.6 m.

https://tierfoncampaign.blogspot.com/2016/07/a-wing-issues.html?m=1

I've seen the actual movie prop models of the OT. FFG made the A-Wing in the exact the same size ratio. If the FFG models are wrong, so are the originals.

Not if they were built to different scales. If you assume the pilots are in the same scale as the ship (this is possibly untrue for the A-Wing filming miniature - the pilot in the model in the OP looks a bit too big for that cockpit), you can extrapolate the correct "real-life" size from that, but if the pilots of the two ships in the filming models are not the same size, then a direct size comparison is not possible because they are different scales.

Maybe the pilot in the picture was actually a shaved Wampa and that throws off all our size estimates?

Sadly there are a few little discrepancies in scale like this in X-Wing, although I wasn't aware of this in the A-Wing. I think it's been documented that the GR-75 and CR-90 are both slightly smaller than they should be, along with the Ghost (although it is to scale with the CR-90). I also remember reading in an article written on the U-Wing and Striker models that the U-Wing's engines are also slightly larger to scale with the rest of the ship to get them to look "right" on the model.

3 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

This is irrelevant.

(1) Regardless of how big A-Wings are in Rebels, it doesn't change the fact that the A-Wings of Episode 6 (and apparently Episode 8) are much, much smaller. We don't have A-Wing pilots from Rebels, we have A-Wing pilots from the Battle of Endor (Sojan, Crynyrd, Tycho, and Farrell were all Green Squadron at Endor). Besides, those aren't technically R-Z 1-A A-Wing Interceptors. It's been established (even in New Canon) that pre-Yavin A-Wing-like ships are R-22 Spearhead Fighters.

(2) Even if we grant the Rebels size, which is slightly larger, the FFG model would still be too big. You still couldn't squeeze two human beings shoulder-to-shoulder side by side in that bubble cockpit, yet in the U-Wing you can have Cassian and K2 sitting side-by-side with plenty of space between them (and yet the FFG Model A-Wing model still has a wider bubble cockpit than the U-Wing cockpit).

(3) Do you really want to use a kid's cartoon for scale arguments? Given that Rebels plays fast and loose with scale for stylistic advantage, such as with stubby little TIE Fighters, long-necked giraffe like ISDs, and anime-ish characters with giant eyes and tiny wrists/waists/etc., it doesn't seem like realistic scale is a goal for the cartoon (nor need it be).

So, overruled. Your Exhibit A is dismissed.

Very dismissive of a canon source.

I too would like your first point backed up.

Regarding point 1: The term "R-22 Spearhead" is never used. The ROTJ A-wings according to the Databank are the same ones as in Rebels - but with reduced armor, shields, and heavy weapons replaced with lighter weapons, and the engine power increased.

http://www.starwars.com/databank/a-wing-fighter

The A-wing was a wedge-shaped strike fighter that took design inspiration from Republic starfighters of the Clone Wars. One of the earliest rebel units to use these quick, powerful fighters was Phoenix Squadron, whose pilots would tragically meet their match. Several of the fighters entered the fray when the evil Sith Lord Darth Vader tracked the Ghost crew to the rebel fleet. The Imperial enforcer methodically wiped them out, showing expert piloting skills and a ruthlessness that the A-wing pilots could not equal.

GALACTIC CIVIL WAR

As the Empire ramped up production of both standard TIE fighters and experimental models, the Alliance responded by seeking a starfighter that could outfly them all. Alliance techs turned to the A-wing, which had proved capable in early battles against Imperial forces. Refinements made by rebel techs stripped away the A-wing's shields, armor and heavy weapons in favor of raw speed, resulting in a fighter that was tough to maintain and fly, but could outrun even a TIE interceptor. These reworked A-wings played a large role in the Battle of Endor, the rebels' greatest victory over the Empire.

5 hours ago, JJFDVORAK said:

You've put alot of thought into what is essentially old news. People noticed that the Awing was oversized when they first came out.

This irrelevant comment does not change the fact that the OP is correct.

1 hour ago, GeneralBergfrühling said:

I've seen the actual movie prop models of the OT. FFG made the A-Wing in the exact the same size ratio. If the FFG models are wrong, so are the originals.

The FFG models look perfect, in my opinion. They are just at ~1/165 scale.

The ship just isn't 9.6 m long. Based on human pilot size only.

It's like with the Falcon - yes, they made an 80ft long model - but it was far too small in the context of interior shots - so the Falcon's size ended up being around 34.5m - over 110 ft long.

In a similar way - that pilot toy is too big and that cockpit too cramped - so Rebels upsized the A-wing.

The live action shots are slightly less cramped - but still look uncomfortably tight.

On 06/02/2017 at 5:24 PM, unnklefunkle said:

Sadly there are a few little discrepancies in scale like this in X-Wing, although I wasn't aware of this in the A-Wing. I think it's been documented that the GR-75 and CR-90 are both slightly smaller than they should be, along with the Ghost (although it is to scale with the CR-90). I also remember reading in an article written on the U-Wing and Striker models that the U-Wing's engines are also slightly larger to scale with the rest of the ship to get them to look "right" on the model.

But the Batmobile is by far the greatest (smallest) offender. Try to put people inside that cockpit.

On ‎2‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 1:24 PM, unnklefunkle said:

Sadly there are a few little discrepancies in scale like this in X-Wing, although I wasn't aware of this in the A-Wing. I think it's been documented that the GR-75 and CR-90 are both slightly smaller than they should be, along with the Ghost (although it is to scale with the CR-90). I also remember reading in an article written on the U-Wing and Striker models that the U-Wing's engines are also slightly larger to scale with the rest of the ship to get them to look "right" on the model.

The GR-75 and CR-90 are on a different, sliding scale intentionally. The designers decided that having them at the official 1/270 scale would make a model that was too big and expensive.