This is sort of an aside kinda thread. Just wondering what the experts think.....

First off, I have really enjoyed getting to know this game. Fantastic! I also thanks everyone on this forum on assisting me in learning as I check these threads a lot. Although most of the ships and modifications spoken of herein are not part of my current collection, I think it is giving me a better feel for what is possible as I get into Armada. I've also checked out some YouTube videos of top table games and seen what work(s) at the top. With all that said, is it just me, or is the Rebel side of the game stronger by design than the Imperial side. It seems to be the average observations in my overview. I come from an X-Wing background and it began as a short lived Imperial domination, to a long run of Rebels and is now at the mercy of the Scum powers, as far as the facts at the top tables.

Shmitty's amazing thread below provides some hard (if unavoidably somewhat limited) evidence on this matter. Draw from it any conclusions you like! :)

59 minutes ago, DiabloAzul said:

Shmitty's amazing thread below provides some hard (if unavoidably somewhat limited) evidence on this matter. Draw from it any conclusions you like!

Looks like overall, his detailed analysis dovetailed with what I have found, the Rebel Lists have a far better winning percentage. Looks like Wave 2 was won by Imperial Lists 2/3rds of the time, but both Wave 3, 4 and 5 were won by Rebel Lists 2/3rds of the time. It interesting how X-Wing and Armada seem to have the same Rebel power curve over Imperial lists in the last few waves; Scum notwithstanding. Seems there may be a designed intent of sorts. Interesting.......

Would thematically make sense. Imperial domination early on but as the war progresses it turns increasingly in the Rebels favor.

1 hour ago, clanofwolves said:

Looks like overall, his detailed analysis dovetailed with what I have found, the Rebel Lists have a far better winning percentage. Looks like Wave 2 was won by Imperial Lists 2/3rds of the time, but both Wave 3, 4 and 5 were won by Rebel Lists 2/3rds of the time. It interesting how X-Wing and Armada seem to have the same Rebel power curve over Imperial lists in the last few waves; Scum notwithstanding. Seems there may be a designed intent of sorts. Interesting.......

A couple of points to keep in mind when interpreting this:

1) Wave 3/4 was one wave.

2) Though Shmitty hadn't started his collection efforts yet for Wave 1 Regionals, Imps were also anecdotally dominating in Wave 1. To the point where it was a huge upset when a Rebel list won Worlds, and most, if not all, of the top 8 OTHER than the winner were nearly-identical GenCon Special Imps.

So, maybe not so imbalanced as it might seem at first blush.

Very strong players on both sides, different flavours though. I feel a lot of imperial players stuck with a bit much inertia (which hurt a bit). However top 3 at the Toronto regionals were imperial, 2/3 were rather unique lists #2 was similar to gencon winner (same guy, so not surprising, he was #2)

i have been struggling lately to make an imperial list that just wouldn't be better than a rebel list. I do not think the game is unbalanced of lopsided, i am just struggling to figure out the imperial lists of wave 5.

With the early Imperial advantage it was pretty easy to spot what was going on. Wave 2 Imperials were really heavy in to the black dice MSU fleets and Rhymer balls. Both archetypes had a ton of success.

As of now, all of the Wave 5 tourneys in the data set are won by different admirals.

The current Rebel advantage doesn't seem to fall into any obvious pattern. Many different Rebel fleet types are finding success. There are some repeated themes, but lots of variation on those themes.

The Imperial fleets seem to me at least to be less focused this wave than in previous waves, yet many kinda look and feel similar. The black dice MSU fleets are pretty much gone and I don't feel like I see as many Rhymer balls. While I think it is possible, no one seems to have cracked the Interdictor yet.

26 minutes ago, Darthain said:

Very strong players on both sides, different flavours though. I feel a lot of imperial players stuck with a bit much inertia (which hurt a bit). However top 3 at the Toronto regionals were imperial, 2/3 were rather unique lists #2 was similar to gencon winner (same guy, so not surprising, he was #2)

I wish we had the data from Toronto. I had heard it was a really strong tournament.

6 minutes ago, shmitty said:

I wish we had the data from Toronto. I had heard it was a really strong tournament.

Did we not submit it? Pretty sure we posted at least the top 4. I might be able to get all the lists from the TO if he still has it saved.

2 minutes ago, Kristjan said:

Did we not submit it? Pretty sure we posted at least the top 4. I might be able to get all the lists from the TO if he still has it saved.

Never mind, I have it in there. So many tournaments that I lose track some times.

30 minutes ago, shmitty said:

no one seems to have cracked the Interdictor yet.

my thoughts on the interdictor last regionals was a good support ship with some objective pressure. I played 9pts down and took station assault, contested outpost and salvage run. I faced imperials all 3 rounds and my stations were obliterated. Precision strikes may have been a better pic. there are some things the interdictor can do for all 3 of the scenarios i picked. my first game was vs a isd demo gozanti rhymerball IIRC and i just speed 0'd on the stations. I should have gone out and engaged him trying to soak fire on my ships leaving the stations alive. not having a consistant way to deal with dengar meant he could leap my squadrons and bomb the station. I lost 4-7 with a 66 mov, so one more squadron kill and its a 5-6.

round 2 my opponent did obstacles correctly to force me into the middle and just swarmed me. I lost 5-6m he one shot a station. I should have lost 1-10 if he took that shot on my speed 0 interdictor instead as i messed up my commands.

round 3 i get another imp list. i pull the stations to deployent move all the obstacles and the decide to leave my bubble and go fight. He just tables me, his ISD rolls 1 accuracy 9+ damage 2 turns in a row and i can't do anything about it.

The list is OK, it needs some tweaking like making demolisher AA demo instead of a ship hunter. I needed to play it better. it took me too long to realize i need to go engage vs imperials.

I feel the interdictor strength is in its upgrades like grav shift. maybe with relay and strategic you can play a really good scenario game like firelanes or intel sweep but at some point you need to make points in the game.

The interdictor is a really good tank ship with an engineering potential of 6 and Tua + RBD you can potentially drop 6 damage cards in one round. It just does not have the offense an ISD can. I feel its a bit over costed for what it does.

While I've not been to a tournament since Wave 5 hit I really feel like it opened up a whole new play style for the Imperials with a reasonably priced long range support ship in the Arquitens and Jerjerrod. In the few games I've played with them the added maneuverability and ability to stay at range has made a huge amount of difference. I still have no idea how to get the most out of an Interdictor though.

11 hours ago, shmitty said:

The current Rebel advantage doesn't seem to fall into any obvious pattern. Many different Rebel fleet types are finding success. There are some repeated themes, but lots of variation on those themes.

I'd say it's clearer than that.

'If you fly Rebel, the ships you pick are whatever - find something you like. If you bring fighters, you'll win.'

Rebel fighters are kind of ridiculously OP at the moment.

EDIT to add: As a die-hard Imperial player, I have no real problem with that. I've seen the same movies you all have, the Rebels dominating in 'snub fighter' combat is totally thematically sound, and their reliance on using those fighters to bring down the biggest ships...yeah, I get it. STILL...I'd like some way to deal with them better than what we've got.

Would it be reasonable to say that, if an imbalance exists, it is mostly because the Raider has failed to live up to expectations as an effective anti-squadron platform?

I'd say also, though it's hardly indication of a trend, IA and X-Wing had early issues with Imperial utter domination in the competitive scene. they may be pushing towards avoiding that and subconsciously decreasing Imperial power, especially after the explosive adoption of Demolisher in Wave 1/2.

2 hours ago, DiabloAzul said:

Would it be reasonable to say that, if an imbalance exists, it is mostly because the Raider has failed to live up to expectations as an effective anti-squadron platform?

Raider 1 Ordance Experts Flechette Torpedoes. While you may not kill squadrons, you will generally control them. Add Kallus for aces if you wish.

I do feel that all the rebel admirals are competitive while Tagge, Konstantine, and Ozzel do not feel competitive. Also all the rebel ships seem to have a place , with arguably the Liberty being "not competitive" while the Imperials see to have lack luster releases with the Interdictor and Raider.

I think the real issues Imperials have is the lack of good commanders.

Tarkin cost way too much for what he does, although what he does is GOOD.

Screed is also pretty okay, but is he really worth it?

Vader has found his niche and will probably do so as the game keeps on going.

Tagge. I never played against the guy.

Ozzel, never played against him either.

And of course, Motti...

While on the rebels side, there's not a single commander that is considered "bad", except MAYBE Garm but even that is debatable.

agree.

Vader is strong for sure. in a list that can take 4ish Arqs and an ISD and just run a claw formation A A ISD A A and try to entrap a fleet and pelt it from long range letting avenger finish it it off. Vader just helps with that.

Ozzel on paper seems strong but you almost need ozzel and JJ to combine to be on the level of like madine. JJ with raiders seems very maneuverable but they're raiders.......

Tagge may have a place as a motti replacement. If you see more and more intel officers due to Flotilla Flagships then he may have a spot.

I just feel that if Garm is the "weakest" rebel admiral its a good spot for the rebels to be in then.

I think there is a correlation with the dominance of the Rebels winning and the increasing power of the squadron game, and the diminishing impact of larger ships. Imperials often rely on ships (Rhymerball notwithstanding) to do damage to other ships, and have much more specialised fighters that have less utility in multi-roles.

The Rebels have a much more flexible fighter selection, and capable small ships which can fight at range. The relative weakness of bigger ships is less of an issue for the Rebels.

Hopefully this will balance back out over the course of future releases. Flechette torpedoes being a tentative step in that direction.

Also, I sadly agree that most Imperial admirals are lame.

1 minute ago, Mundo said:

I think there is a correlation with the dominance of the Rebels winning and the increasing power of the squadron game, and the diminishing impact of larger ships. Imperials often rely on ships (Rhymerball notwithstanding) to do damage to other ships, and have much more specialised fighters that have less utility in multi-roles.

The Rebels have a much more flexible fighter selection, and capable small ships which can fight at range. The relative weakness of bigger ships is less of an issue for the Rebels.

Hopefully this will balance back out over the course of future releases. Flechette torpedoes being a tentative step in that direction.

Also, I sadly agree that most Imperial admirals are lame.

And as a corollary to the above, I think Rebels have a bit more variety which appeals to the experienced player. Skill is a major factor in this game, and a Rebel list tends to rely on a bit more finesse than brute force Imperials.

I prefer brute force, so I tend to play Imperial mostly still!

I feel that at the higher end of the game the variety of rebels and the ability to play a guerrilla warfare game is just stronger. Imperials tend to be very telegraphed. They make a plan and they execute the plan. If you can not break those plans you will lose.

If you guys want to see Imperial finesse play, use Jerjerrod. He absolutely makes Imperial ships DANCE. In the hands of a good player it's like watching space ballet...amazing.

On the Rebel side you don't see Cracken being used much...nor Madine much recently.

As an aside I do feel both sides are pretty balanced, with a variety of fleet strategies and builds doing well. Local metas will vary of course.

23 minutes ago, Maturin said:

If you guys want to see Imperial finesse play, use Jerjerrod. He absolutely makes Imperial ships DANCE. In the hands of a good player it's like watching space ballet...amazing.

On the Rebel side you don't see Cracken being used much...nor Madine much recently.

As an aside I do feel both sides are pretty balanced, with a variety of fleet strategies and builds doing well. Local metas will vary of course.

dancing turds are still... turds

sorry

I have not found a ship thats worth teaching to dance for imps. sure making an ISD move like a hippo from some kids animated movie is amazing.

Maybe the gladiator has some play there. can insidious be used to get behind with expanded launcher tubes and just pewpew... maybe. he seems strong on the raider but its a raider.

I tried to see if i could do liek 3 raiders 4 arqs and just sort of double swirl with red dice from arqs hitting you and then raiders going in and out to try and finish you off.

On 2/6/2017 at 11:55 PM, xanderf said:

Rebel fighters are kind of ridiculously OP at the moment.

On 2/7/2017 at 6:46 AM, thecactusman17 said:

...they may be subconsciously decreasing Imperial power

On 2/7/2017 at 8:41 AM, BergerFett said:

I do feel that all the rebel admirals are competitive while Tagge, Konstantine, and Ozzel do not feel competitive.

On 2/7/2017 at 10:11 AM, Sybreed said:

I think the real issues Imperials have is the lack of good commanders.

18 hours ago, Mundo said:

I think there is a correlation with the dominance of the Rebels winning and the increasing power of the squadron game....

Also, I sadly agree that most Imperial admirals are lame.

2 hours ago, Maturin said:

If you guys want to see Imperial finesse play, use Jerjerrod.

1 hour ago, BergerFett said:

dancing turds are still... turds

So this seems to be the summary of the current meta by this small pole; interesting........maybe the FFG designers see this and ponder balancing solutions.