The Togruta racial ability reads "When performing the assist maneuver, Togrutas grant BB instead of B."

How literal do you take the wording with this this? Does this only ever apply during structured play, when they use the assist maneuver specifically? Or do you let it work with unskilled assistance in narrative play, too? RAW is pretty obvious, but how do you/your GM handle it? Seems a bit weird that it would only work during initiative.

I houserule it somewhat, so that whenever a Togruta gives assistance, the roll gets an additional Boost Die, no matter if it is skilled or unskilled assistance. Don't know if this is helpful?

I don't think it's a game breaker to allow narratively.

As a togruta myself, I can confirm that our assistance is especially helpful in any situation, regardless of whether it's in combat or not!

14 minutes ago, Absol197 said:

As a togruta myself, I can confirm that our assistance is especially helpful in any situation, regardless of whether it's in combat or not!

You would say that either way, though.

Perhaps ! Bit just look at my forum reputation! You don't get to likes nearly doubling your posts if you're not doubly helpful, right? That's just sensible math !

By RAW, no, you should not let it work with Unskilled Assistance.

Certain species have certain abilities that specify either Skilled Assistance, Unskilled Assistance, or the Assist maneuver. Each of these things are different from each other, and allowing the Togruta to have a wider applicability means that you're being unfair to those other species, IMO. It also had the effect of robbing the ability of its uniqueness and meaning.

That said, I might allow it to work outside of structured time specifically for hunting or combat, even when Skilled and Unskilled Assistance could also apply. Tracking, combat training, attack rolls, situational things like that. But in the wide majority of circumstances, I would be stingy and limit it to structured time. And then let the player go bananas adding two Boost dice to every check he can

Given that it is specifically a Racial ability, I would have to say yes, it does apply. The text does not say it only applies to Skilled assist maneuvers. It says when performing the Assist Maneuver... This is because Togruta's a pack hunters. They've evolved, as a species, to work in a coordinated effort, and thus are naturally gifted in assisting each other. Whether it is skilled or unskilled assistance is irrelevant in this regards, by RAW, it should always be a two boost bonus.

Maneuvers apply to structured play, skilled/unskilled is narrative.

15 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

Maneuvers apply to structured play, skilled/unskilled is narrative.

A rigid interpretation that makes the Gunner Droid Brain's text all but meaningless.

23 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

Maneuvers apply to structured play, skilled/unskilled is narrative.

6 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

A rigid interpretation that makes the Gunner Droid Brain's text all but meaningless.

Actually, according th page 206, Maneuvers can be performed in either structured or narrative play, However, they are only tracked and defined within Structured play. So, in narrative play, you can still perform maneuvers, but there is no specific limits as to how many you can perform as there is during structured time, since time is not a tracked factor in narrative play. To quote:

Quote

Technically, characters perform maneuvers during narrative gameplay as well as structured gameplay, or encounters. However, maneuvers are tracked and defined during encounters because characters' time and efforts are more limited by the frantic pace of conflict.

So, yes, you can perform maneuvers in narrative play, but they're not tracked and limited like they are in structured time.

That's a good pull, Tramp.

What can I say. I have the book in my bag right next to me. It's easy for me to look it up.

2 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

A rigid interpretation that makes the Gunner Droid Brain's text all but meaningless.

I suspect that text needs errata. Clearly the intention of the wording is that it can be used to assist a person shooting, but it possibly needs clarification, and shouldn't trump other discussions.

4 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Actually, according th page 206, Maneuvers can be performed in either structured or narrative play, However, they are only tracked and defined within Structured play. So, in narrative play, you can still perform maneuvers, but there is no specific limits as to how many you can perform as there is during structured time, since time is not a tracked factor in narrative play. To quote:

So, yes, you can perform maneuvers in narrative play, but they're not tracked and limited like they are in structured time.

Not so fast there

1. The wording is " Technically, characters perform maneuvers during narrative gameplay as well as during structured gameplay." (Emphasis mine) This is an important distinction, and is very sensible (like, otherwise you couldn't move, right). (also as an aside, the paragraph quoted is also found in EotE page 200—just in case people are confused by FaD page numbers)
2. On EotE page 201 (or FaD 207) there starts a "list of maneuvers a character can perform during combat ." (Emphasis mine) The Assist maneuver is on this list.
3. Further clarification comes from reading Chapter I (pages 25-26 EotE, or page 34 FaD), wherein we find the rules for Assisted Checks. It lists three types of Assistance: Skilled Assistance, Unskilled Assistance, and then under "Assistance and Timing" it tells us that assistance during structured encounters is accomplished with the Assist Maneuver, pointing us to the relevant rules. This is different from Unskilled & Skilled Assistance, in that it doesn't distinguish between skilled and unskilled, and also in that it requires a maneuver. Unskilled & Skilled Assistance do not require or even mention a maneuver; they are simply performed as part of the acting character's skill check.

So bottom line, if you're not performing the Assist Maneuver, you don't get the Togruta's species bonus per RAW. And this as it should be—it's plenty powerful as it is.

However, above, I posted some ideas about how I might allow it in unstructured time, in certain circumstances.

Here's the problem with your reading. While the rules state that in Structured time, any Assistance specifically requires the use of the Assist maneuver, The rules does not say that the Assist maneuver cannot be performed outside of structured play. The rules do say that maneuvers can be performed outside of structured play. The clarification with the Assist maneuver in structured play is that if you want to assist someone in structured play, it requires a maneuver to do so, specifically the Assist Maneuver. That is all. It does not prohibit it from being used outside of structured play. And no, the Assist maneuver is not really any different from unskilled or skilled maneuvers. All it does is establish how you can use skilled and unskilled assistance in structured time, which is through the use of the Assist maneuver. In fact, reading the rules on page 34, there are only two types of assistance period: Skilled and Unskilled. The Assist Maneuver specifically, by RAW is unskilled assistance, since it works exactly like unskilled assistance, providing one (or more) Boost dice to the character being assisted.

Thunderdome.

You can't make an argument based on what the rules don't prohibit, Tramp. Otherwise players would be getting away with all sorts of dumb stuff "because the rules don't prohibit me from doing it."

13 minutes ago, awayputurwpn said:

You can't make an argument based on what the rules don't prohibit, Tramp. Otherwise players would be getting away with all sorts of dumb stuff "because the rules don't prohibit me from doing it."

It's not simply a matter of what the rules "don't prohibit", but rather what the rules specifically state about maneuvers, which is that they can be use during unstructured play. In other words, not only do the rules not prohibit it, but they specifically allow it . essentially, Maneuvers can be used at any time. The only restrictions placed on them are when they are used during structured time, and those restrictions are how many you can use during your turn.

Minor correction: technically (not essentially), maneuvers are being performed all the time. That is what the rules say. It's not permission to perform maneuver; it's a statement of fact.

That said, the mechanics for giving assistance in unstructured time are already spelled out, and in those rules they distinguish between assistance in unstructured time (Unskilled/Skill Assistance) and structured time (the Assist maneuver). Reading the whole section in context helps to discern what's going on.

Bottom line, I would just be reticent to allow the ability to be performed willy-nilly with any and all attempts at assistance. That is overpowered. But restricting it on a case-by-case basis in narrative time should create some interesting moments.

7 minutes ago, awayputurwpn said:

Minor correction: technically (not essentially), maneuvers are being performed all the time. That is what the rules say. It's not permission to perform maneuver; it's a statement of fact.

That said, the mechanics for giving assistance in unstructured time are already spelled out, and in those rules they distinguish between assistance in unstructured time (Unskilled/Skill Assistance) and structured time (the Assist maneuver). Reading the whole section in context helps to discern what's going on.

Bottom line, I would just be reticent to allow the ability to be performed willy-nilly with any and all attempts at assistance. That is overpowered. But restricting it on a case-by-case basis in narrative time should create some interesting moments.

Well, you simply interpret the passage differently than I do.

Personally, I'd allow it to be used out of combat, as an extra boost die isn't that huge of a deal, as more often than not it just means an extra advantage is generated.