I join the group of those who are a bit nervous about the concept of Condition cards.

For one, they represent yet another mechanic tacked onto the game.

For another, it makes the semi-successful dark side wannabe Kylo Ren the only person in the game who can "Show you the Dark Side". Not even Vader, or, worse yet, not even Palpatine can pull that off. Dark Lords of the Sith can't manage what a half-trained failure from the future can.

It reminds me of the new (small) Pelta-class frigate in Armada, which, oddly enough, is supposed to be a better command ship than Home One. What?

Both might be examples of over-valuing the new at the expense of the old.

Star Wars: Rebels and The Force Awakens aren't better than the Original Trilogy, but FFG seems to want to turn those products up to "11".

Ion, Cloak, and Tractor tokens are all essentially conditions. The difference is that they come with a rule card that explains how the condition works instead of a "condition" card.

There may be some difference between those tokens and conditions if there is ever a pilot ability or upgrade that does something to a condition card or if you are targeting a ship with an assigned condition but currently there's no real functional difference.

The Force Awakens is great. Kylo Ren is the best villain. That is all.

5 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

Ion, Cloak, and Tractor tokens are all essentially conditions. The difference is that they come with a rule card that explains how the condition works instead of a "condition" card.

There may be some difference between those tokens and conditions if there is ever a pilot ability or upgrade that does something to condition card or if you are targeting a ship with an assigned condition but currently there's no real functional difference.

basically as above

except the condition card is the EXACT same thing as a rule card, minus kylo Ren storing a crit in his

conditions are nothing new; been here since Wave 1

as, obviously only Kylo can show the dark side, because he's shown some propensity for mental manipulation. Vader just choked fools, and palp shot lightning after failing horribly to convert luke

8 minutes ago, evanger said:

Star Wars: Rebels and The Force Awakens aren't better than the Original Trilogy, but FFG seems to want to turn those products up to "11".

The problem is that the OT ships were the first ones released and not that there is a concerted effort to make sure that Rebels and TFA ships are better. A lot of the new cards and mechanics end up benefiting OT ships even if they don't ship with them.

its literally another mechanic w/o a Rules Ref card. The only reason im annoyed is now we got a bunch of condition tokens to keep track of and more to come.

New canon is the release priority. Every release since the Gozanti has included canon content at least in part, if not in whole. That trend is likely to continue.

I don't like that Captain Rex is the only pilot in the universe that is capable of suppressing fire tactics.

I also think the majority of Wave 10 cards feel very text heavy and seem a bit more complicated ("If X then opponent does Y or else Z"). Really feels like a different designer is at the helm with this wave?

1 minute ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

I don't like that Captain Rex is the only pilot in the universe that is capable of suppressing fire tactics.

I also think the majority of Wave 10 cards feel very text heavy and seem a bit more complicated ("If X then opponent does Y or else Z"). Really feels like a different designer is at the helm with this wave?

Waves 9 and 10 have added a new Guy, as Frank has mostly moved on to other things like RuneWars. Alex is still the lead on it.

54 minutes ago, evanger said:

I join the group of those who are a bit nervous about the concept of Condition cards.

For one, they represent yet another mechanic tacked onto the game.

For another, it makes the semi-successful dark side wannabe Kylo Ren the only person in the game who can "Show you the Dark Side". Not even Vader, or, worse yet, not even Palpatine can pull that off. Dark Lords of the Sith can't manage what a half-trained failure from the future can.

It reminds me of the new (small) Pelta-class frigate in Armada, which, oddly enough, is supposed to be a better command ship than Home One. What?

Both might be examples of over-valuing the new at the expense of the old.

Star Wars: Rebels and The Force Awakens aren't better than the Original Trilogy, but FFG seems to want to turn those products up to "11".

I would still take Vader over Ren <Crew>. Vader through the true power of the Dark Side can simply crush ships. Ren needs a crit to go through shields tokens and green dice in order to work. Although I would say it is funny that they left out Ren Damaging his ship when he doesn't land a crit.

Come on that should at least count for suffering 1 damage if the attack fails to hit.

10 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Ren needs a crit to go through shields tokens and green dice

Kylo's condition ignores shields. You are dealing a card, which bypasses shields. Regardless of if you have shields or not, an unevaded Crit causes the ship to "suffer a crit" which normally removes 1 shield or deals a faceup card. Kylo replaces that "or" statement with "take this"

When it comes to Conditions as a whole WWHSD has already pointed out that they aren't all that different from other things we've already gotten. In many ways Ionization, Cloaking, and several other things would have worked the same way had they just been "Conditions" instead of tokens with a bunch of new rules backing them up.

In some ways there are also like these "must take" ship titles where the reason you have an extra card is basically just to explain how things are supposed to work. If we ever get a ship with Ion weapons as the ship's primary weapons I'm 99% sure that the ionization trait will come via a title or modification specific for that ship.

As for the specific Conditions we're getting I'll say I'm not all that fond of the headache that ISYTDS seems to be able to produce.

1 hour ago, Vineheart01 said:

its literally another mechanic w/o a Rules Ref card. The only reason im annoyed is now we got a bunch of condition tokens to keep track of and more to come.

Almost like how we need ion tokens...

Or tractor beam tokens.

Or Stress Tokens.

inb4 acrylic kylo ren tokens in next tournie kit

Well, that's one way to not have to think to hard about tournament prizes.

7 minutes ago, The Penguin UK said:

Almost like how we need ion tokens...

Or tractor beam tokens.

Or Stress Tokens.

what i meant was more unique tokens. Theres a multitude of ways for those tokens to pop up.
I'd be really surprised if anything applies any of the Condition Cards already printed.

I guess this is the only known way to slip new rules subsystems into the stream, modifying the game on the fly.

I concede that this is basically like the rules cards. I guess the difference is the new effects are powered from EPTs or Pilot Abilities, rather than hardware modifications.

Perhaps I'd feel differently if Conditions had used straight-up rules cards, like everything else thus far.

It just seems like a larger deviation than before.

Conditions DO have straight up rules cards

Theyre just called condition cards and are smaller

47 minutes ago, StevenO said:

As for the specific Conditions we're getting I'll say I'm not all that fond of the headache that ISYTDS seems to be able to produce.

Headaches are kinda kylo's thing

2 hours ago, Marinealver said:

I would still take Vader over Ren <Crew>. Vader through the true power of the Dark Side can simply crush ships. Ren needs a crit to go through shields tokens and green dice in order to work. Although I would say it is funny that they left out Ren Damaging his ship when he doesn't land a crit.

Come on that should at least count for suffering 1 damage if the attack fails to hit.

Vader crew and Kylo crew really should swap text.
Vader force chokes and does a pilot crit.
Kylo just rages and does something while destroying his own ship.

2 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Conditions DO have straight up rules cards

Theyre just called condition cards and are smaller

That^

3 hours ago, evanger said:

I guess this is the only known way to slip new rules subsystems into the stream, modifying the game on the fly.

I concede that this is basically like the rules cards. I guess the difference is the new effects are powered from EPTs or Pilot Abilities, rather than hardware modifications.

Perhaps I'd feel differently if Conditions had used straight-up rules cards, like everything else thus far.

It just seems like a larger deviation than before.

It really isn't that much different than "must use" titles. It lets them do stuff within the rules without completely rewriting the rules.

4 hours ago, Vineheart01 said:

its literally another mechanic w/o a Rules Ref card. The only reason im annoyed is now we got a bunch of condition tokens to keep track of and more to come.

4 conditions is "a bunch"?

2 hours ago, Hwarangdaem said:

Vader crew and Kylo crew really should swap text.
Vader force chokes and does a pilot crit.
Kylo just rages and does something while destroying his own ship.

Vader crew card is the first thing I thought of when I saw the scene with the consoles being slashed up. Shame they already had printed Vader crew a long while before Kylo existed.

Fanatical Devotion does not worry me, and neither does Suppressive Fire the text included with them is to the point and direct; as to I'll Show You the Darkside; I think this card may lead to cheating in a game that which is casual and relaxed; who's to say your opponent now doesn't show up without all the pilot trait cards in the deck; who checks the deck? will that become a norm at organized play events?

As to the mechanics of the condition Kylo needs to deliver a crit and depending on the carrier with 3/4 dice (even maybe 5 at R1) the likelihood is good. It is also an Action which for repeatable use may force that player to decide on very important tactics while using it in certain situations. As to the added complexity as always do what the card says by Wave 11 this will all have faded