I am a "D"

The idea of a multiplayer campaign is what hooked me.

10 hours ago, ManateeX said:

I obviously don't have sales numbers either, but I would amend your statement to say that a lot of skirmish players bought that pack. For campaign-only players there's really no value there, whereas a lot of them would probably buy Han, Chewie and other packs that aren't so great in skirmish. And as we've seen in this thread it seems that more people bought the game for campaign, meaning that the stormtrooper pack may not have moved as many as some of the others. From Fantasy Flight's point of view they might just look at it and say that it's not worthwhile.

With that said though, it's kind of a chicken and egg thing (which I think speaks to the point that you're trying to make with this thread). Are the Stormtrooper pack sales number lower because there are fewer skirmish players, or is the real problem that there are fewer skirmish players because they don't release these sorts of figure packs?

Very true, with the chicken and the egg analogy. I hope FFG supports skirmish more, I'm definitely a believe in it after trying it this year

Also I think they've kind of added some incentive to packs for campaign because they've been including upgrade items in them now (ancient lightsaber)

i'm an "A".

Skirmish only

Started one campaign, and after 2-3 skirmish games i was almost skirmish only

Option E for me!

D but started skirmish to get some of the cool damage tokens.now play way more skirmish than campaign

Just an updated summary on the poll numbers..

Summary:

59.3% of people bought this game with the campaign in mind, 27.8% of that number thought they would try skirmish.

20.4% of people bought this game with the skirmish in mind, 9.3% of those people thought they would try campaign.

14.8% of people bought the game to play campaign and skirmish equally.

Another interesting stat to this poll that I haven't kept track of is how many people bought for the campaign like myself, but ended up enjoying the skirmish more. Just a quick browse through the thread would make me think that number is high. Which again supports the argument that FFG isn't doing a great job of promoting the skirmish side of this game. It is so fun! But how do you get people to trust you?

This week in my LGS X-Wing had a 38 person regional (capacity), with 5-10 on a waiting list, last week they had a Destiny tournament with 21 showing up, and the week before was the Star Wars: LCG Regional which attracted 10 players. I've done two demo days to luke warm reception and am hosting my first casual tournament in just under 2 weeks, have yet to get any responses or attendance confirmations outside of myself and the other organizer. This is my last kick at the can, if I can't drum up interest off of this I am going to jump ship to one of the other FFG Star Wars products. I have invested a lot of free time into promoting this game and it just feels like an uphill battle, time to stop swimming against the current and just ride one of the waves.

@FrogTrigger thanks for organizing this thread and running the stats. Also thanks for getting out there to promote Skirmish at your LGS etc.

Jumping back to the Stormtrooper reinforcement pack, I bought a copy but thought it was a bit disappointing even for something that supposed to support skirmish players because it didn't include Grenadier which along with Reinforcements ( which was included ) was the most important card for Trooper lists at the time. But my biggest complaint is that the sculpts for the Stormtroopers in the pack aren't sufficiently different from the ones in the core box! Put 3 old and 3 new troopers mixed up on a table without any additional paint or markings and you'll have to study them to differentiate, which makes them less useful in skirmishes.

So I do suspect that that pack sold much more poorly than the others in the same waves for those reasons in addition to the others that have been mentioned (mostly un-needed for Campaign play, etc). This has probably soured FFG on repeating reinforcements in packs for the time being.

I bought to play campaign though I figured I would try skirmish to see if it was any good. Still prefer campaign, but the other is good too.

14 hours ago, FrogTrigger said:

Just an updated summary on the poll numbers..

Summary:

59.3% of people bought this game with the campaign in mind, 27.8% of that number thought they would try skirmish.

20.4% of people bought this game with the skirmish in mind, 9.3% of those people thought they would try campaign.

14.8% of people bought the game to play campaign and skirmish equally.

Another interesting stat to this poll that I haven't kept track of is how many people bought for the campaign like myself, but ended up enjoying the skirmish more. Just a quick browse through the thread would make me think that number is high. Which again supports the argument that FFG isn't doing a great job of promoting the skirmish side of this game. It is so fun! But how do you get people to trust you?

This week in my LGS X-Wing had a 38 person regional (capacity), with 5-10 on a waiting list, last week they had a Destiny tournament with 21 showing up, and the week before was the Star Wars: LCG Regional which attracted 10 players. I've done two demo days to luke warm reception and am hosting my first casual tournament in just under 2 weeks, have yet to get any responses or attendance confirmations outside of myself and the other organizer. This is my last kick at the can, if I can't drum up interest off of this I am going to jump ship to one of the other FFG Star Wars products. I have invested a lot of free time into promoting this game and it just feels like an uphill battle, time to stop swimming against the current and just ride one of the waves.

Well, my observation was that packs were coming out too fast, and it is simply a bit overwhelming for a new player to dive in to skirmish with the vast collection of packs already. This game is not as easy to pick up and play as a game such as Xwing seems to be. People complain how Armada releases are too slow, that has allowed more new people to jump in despite coming out later than IA.

I bought in entirely for campaign. for me, skirmish was an afterthought. It is what I end up playing mostly at this point, but I bought for campaign.

9 hours ago, Amraam01 said:

Well, my observation was that packs were coming out too fast, and it is simply a bit overwhelming for a new player to dive in to skirmish with the vast collection of packs already. This game is not as easy to pick up and play as a game such as Xwing seems to be. People complain how Armada releases are too slow, that has allowed more new people to jump in despite coming out later than IA.

This is actually a really good point, I never looked at X-Wing because of the amount of waves and ships, which is probably how someone would look at IA skirmish. However, that recent article about building a list for 101 has me doing some actual research and there are many options for under 100 bucks that can get you competitive at a tournament in X-Wing. That is a lot more tempting than before, those articles were a great idea.

For skirmish obviously we start at 100 with the core, but as we've already stated you would need more like 200 to get the competitive list and the necessary tiles/cards/maps etc.. so your buy in is double the cost :/ In essence though this makes sense as you get double the game, this also comes with a full 20-25 hour campaign, something X-Wing does not. Unfortunately, to appeal to the war gamers and the pure skirmishers this just doesn't help us at all, in fact it hurts us. Which again brings us full circle to the "we need a better entry point for skirmish." It seems like no matter which way we look at it or discuss it, we always keep circling back to that statement so much so I would just call it a fact.

That's why I think they should print the maps on the paper they include in each pack. Include 2 sheets with the map printed on it, lay them side by side or tape them, get rid of the cards and just print the rules for the map on the sheet. Then you could buy a pack and play on the sheet without having to invest in a core set you may or may not be interested in. If you buy 4 different packs of figures, you'd have 8 different scenarios to play on 4 different maps an be close to having a 40pt list. Borrow a couple of command cards and you're ready to play for under $60

For me A, but I haven't even. Even playing the campaign... been waiting for the app. I hope it comes out in April like the rumor I heard...

oy, with the rumour spreading

"I know a guy, and you gotta trust me, because I have offered no evidence whatsoever, but it's definitely believable"

Personally, I'd love to see a Skirmish Starter for maybe $30-40 or so. The purpose of this product would be to ensure that a new player could get into the game easily and affordably (ie, be able to put together a solid squad for under $100), while still having everything needed to play at any level of Organized Play event. This would mean that a new player would NOT need to buy 1 of every boxed expansion before getting into skirmish play. My suggestion for the contents of the Skirmish Starter (all of it is either cards or cardboard, btw, and therefore inexpensive to produce):

• Command Cards: All of the Command Cards from the boxed expansions...or at least a core group of 20-30 of the most commonly used ones: Take Initative, Element of Surprise, Urgency, Planning, Negation, Son of Skywalker, etc. While it would be a huge bonus to have the popular cards from the Ally/Villain packs (such as Reinforcements and/or Grenadier), I think that's less of an issue, since those cards and packs are individually available and inexpensive. New players can easily buy those on an as-needed basis. But they can't currently get TI, Negation, etc, without spending big $$$ on multiple boxed expansions.
• Maps: Printed paper Maps of the current tournament maps, along with the Skirmish Mission Cards for those maps. Totally remove the requirement from OP that players show up with tiles for the maps...allow official FFG paper-printed maps to be legal at all tournaments. Interested players (like me) can still purchase the fancy $25 mousepad-backed maps if they like...in fact, I expect that most of us who are all-in on the game will still buy the fancy ones.
• Tokens: All of the necessary doors/terminals/mission/damage/condition/etc tokens for skirmish play.
• A voucher for a discount on a set of Dice . Maybe 20% off the purchase of a dice pack with a coupon included in this Skirmish Starter box. Don't need to include dice in the set since they're already available separately.

That would be everything (outside of the figures themselves) that a new player would need to get into skirmish.

Additionally...

• ...it would also be great to have certain Figures from the boxed expansions available as A/V packs (similar to the Stormtrooper A/V pack). Obviously, these would only need to be figures that are popular in skirmish play and also not currently available in ally/villain packs. Examples: Gideon Argus, Royal Guards (maybe?), Imperial Officers, Heavy Stormtroopers, Jet Troopers, Weequay Pirates, Vinto Hreeda, etc. As has been suggested, there would be no need for separate skirmish or campaign mission cards or anything...just the figure(s) and the appropriate Deployment Card(s). Almost nobody builds a Rebel squad without Gideon, or an Imperial squad without at least 1 Officer, for example. New players shouldn't be required to spend $100 on a starter just to get access to these key skirmish figures.

Separate purchases (currently all available) that a new player would need to make:

• A set of dice (ideally with a coupon or voucher from the Skirmish Starter).
• Any Ally/Villain packs that they'd need to get specific command cards or figures for their specific lists. Luke, Obiwan, Stormtroopers, Jabba, IG-88 with his fix card, etc.

With this kind of setup I think it would be a whole lot easier and more inviting for new players to get into skirmish. They would have everything that they need to play in tournaments at a high level, and they could (and frankly, would !) catch up on the rest of the collection as they went along.

I bought it to play cooperatively with the app. Sure hope it comes out this year like they stated

So I recently started into X-Wing, bought the core a few weeks ago to learn the game and have since added a few packs to build a list for an upcoming quarterly tournament. X-Wing is blowing IA out of the water in terms of new user friendly. It cost me a core set, an A-Wing and a K-Wing and I am flying a competitive 100 point list for $75.00 US. It doesn't have all of the bells and whistles, but I am definitely into the game and have a legit shot at winning matches even as a newer player based on the testing I have done with my local player base already. So for cheaper than IA's core, you can build a competitive tournament ready list. Let me rephrase that to make it look even worse, for the price of the map rotation, JUST THE MAP ROTATION, for IA... you can have a competitive list in X-Wing and be playing. Honestly just sit back and think about that for a minute. It really does expose the major flaw of IA, high light it, bold it, italics, underline and slather it up in BBQ sauce during mosquito season.

It is very clear to me now why X-Wing is so popular, this game is amazing, but it is even more clear why IA has struggled. This isn't really new information I get it, I just wanted to report my findings from the other side. It just doesn't seem feasible to scale IA when you compare it to the buy in for X-Wing, I get that they are two different games but in actuality they really aren't that different. Outside gamers see a miniatures game. I definitely will be diving deeper into X-Wing and putting my IA purchases on hold until my campaign catches up. Great game, highly recommend it to anyone who is on the fence.

Great article came out today to from the world champ with ideas on building a competitive list for $101 US:

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/2/24/x-wing-101-fly-with-the-world-champ/

I'm a D

On 24/02/2017 at 9:42 PM, bassoon201 said:

I'm a D

Don't be so hard on yourself mate, I'd put you at a B+ at least

On 24/02/2017 at 8:43 PM, FrogTrigger said:

So I recently started into X-Wing, bought the core a few weeks ago to learn the game and have since added a few packs to build a list for an upcoming quarterly tournament. X-Wing is blowing IA out of the water in terms of new user friendly. It cost me a core set, an A-Wing and a K-Wing and I am flying a competitive 100 point list for $75.00 US. It doesn't have all of the bells and whistles, but I am definitely into the game and have a legit shot at winning matches even as a newer player based on the testing I have done with my local player base already. So for cheaper than IA's core, you can build a competitive tournament ready list. Let me rephrase that to make it look even worse, for the price of the map rotation, JUST THE MAP ROTATION, for IA... you can have a competitive list in X-Wing and be playing. Honestly just sit back and think about that for a minute. It really does expose the major flaw of IA, high light it, bold it, italics, underline and slather it up in BBQ sauce during mosquito season.

It is very clear to me now why X-Wing is so popular, this game is amazing, but it is even more clear why IA has struggled. This isn't really new information I get it, I just wanted to report my findings from the other side. It just doesn't seem feasible to scale IA when you compare it to the buy in for X-Wing, I get that they are two different games but in actuality they really aren't that different. Outside gamers see a miniatures game. I definitely will be diving deeper into X-Wing and putting my IA purchases on hold until my campaign catches up. Great game, highly recommend it to anyone who is on the fence.

Great article came out today to from the world champ with ideas on building a competitive list for $101 US:

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/2/24/x-wing-101-fly-with-the-world-champ/

Yea I can't argue with that on the buy in really. X-Wing is a decent game and I played it heavily a while back, (Sold my second hand collection for £400 just after TLT's came out, so gives you an idea how much stuff I had) however I honestly believe IA is a much better game, it just doesn't have that £30 starter you can grab off a shelf.

Having said that, if you grab Jabba's Realm, you're most of the way there to being able to run a strong competitive list for £45. Print off the maps from Ibsh until you're ready to go to a Regional level event, and you can just share your opponents dice most of the time (If you're really on a budget and need the dice, get the dice app for a few quid)

6 hours ago, RoyalRich said:

Yea I can't argue with that on the buy in really. X-Wing is a decent game and I played it heavily a while back, (Sold my second hand collection for £400 just after TLT's came out, so gives you an idea how much stuff I had) however I honestly believe IA is a much better game, it just doesn't have that £30 starter you can grab off a shelf.

Having said that, if you grab Jabba's Realm, you're most of the way there to being able to run a strong competitive list for £45. Print off the maps from Ibsh until you're ready to go to a Regional level event, and you can just share your opponents dice most of the time (If you're really on a budget and need the dice, get the dice app for a few quid)

Ya absolutely there are ways around it and ways to get into IA for cheaper than the core + maps + whatever your list needs.. but the problem is those options aren't new user friendly. Like you said, there isn't that grab it off the shelf and give it a try box. Unfortunately that 'give it a try box' is $100 US and doesn't come with a very competitive list, or at least not with the command cards that make that list competitive. The argument you can make for IA is that you get the campaign side, so a direct comparison is tough when you just leave that one side off of it.. but when we are looking at this strictly from a skirmish stand point then it is a fair comparison. Because the argument we are making is the difficulty to enter the skirmish game.

I'd be a 'D'. Still am mostly all about the campaign. I don't enjoy the 'numbers' aspect of high competition in games like this - I enjoy the theme and want to have a goofy fun time. When it gets serious, it's not for me...

D

Started with the core set and campaign a little over a year ago. This is my first miniature board game. Slowly started adding small expansion packs. Got into painting and added more expansions packs. Eventually learned to play and love skirmish games.

At this point I have two core sets and two Jabba's Realm sets as well as two to three copies of smaller none unique figure packs. Love the game and the experience it brings to me and my friends. Also got to know some cool new people via skirmish games.